Smiler totally agree, warne subs were bewildering, System not working
Yup, same thoughts from me..
I've listened to Warney's post match interview - I wish the interviewer had asked why he took off Rathbone and mentioned that we booed that decision - to get an answer.
I thought either Chio or Sadlier or both should have been replaced after 50 mins or so. Neither track back enough and our full backs were streched too many times. Should have brought Mattock to bolster defence and Griggsy on earlier for Freddy.
Most annoying, as others say. is that he simply REFUSES to let the team play through the middle.. I want to see Barlaser and Rathbone on at the same time - and Ferguson back for Sadlier.
Reason Freddy is not on form is that yet again balls are being lumped forward and not played through the opposition defence to feet - Freddy needs the ball played in front of him facing goal.
One to write off - but Warne needs to learn and needs to have a plan B when games go like this one did..
Hopefully its a blip..
-- Edited by Davidedin on Saturday 11th of September 2021 07:25:25 PM
It was bewildering and remains a thorn in PWs side. He cannot and won't play the opposition.
I consider myself really quite poor from a tactical point of view , but , boy, I did my homework on fleetwood and could see this game being played out based on warneys skills exactly the way it did.
More to the point it was blindingly obvious 25 minutes in that the formation wasn't working and also that sadlier and ogbene were not having good games and would not.
I listened to praise or grumble on the way home and then came on here and there is really no dissent . We all saw it a mile off and we all knew even at 2-1 up and ar half time that we were going to be punished unless those changes were made. Unbelievably they weren't. I must admit it brought back all my worries I noted last season.
PW, should put his hands up and take a good honest look at his tactical knowledge and courage.
What a terrible, terrible spectacle .
I think it will be very hard for the management to make the changes necessary. It is going to have to be done however. I've seen previous managers change formations and style in very quick order. I'm worried PW cannot.
-- Edited by ian on Saturday 11th of September 2021 07:54:01 PM
You seem to be a bit preoccupied with putting your own slant on what I do or don't think, Derby. I dont think I ever said that anyone can play at centre back. I do think that experienced full backs who are big enough can play as one of three at the back. By the by, at Birmingham Harding was considered to be a Championship centre back who could play at full back if needed and Mattock started his career as a centre half. In any case, in the nicest possible way and for the record I'm really not too concerned with whether you agree with me or not. In fact I feel a bit more comfortable when you don't.
It was bewildering and remains a thorn in PWs side. He cannot and won't play the opposition.
I consider myself really quite poor from a tactical point of view , but , boy, I did my homework on fleetwood and could see this game being played out based on warneys skills exactly the way it did.
More to the point it was blindingly obvious 25 minutes in that the formation wasn't working and also that sadlier and ogbene were not having good games and would not.
I listened to praise or grumble on the way home and then came on here and there is really no dissent . We all saw it a mile off and we all knew even at 2-1 up and ar half time that we were going to be punished unless those changes were made. Unbelievably they weren't. I must admit it brought back all my worries I noted last season.
PW, should put his hands up and take a good honest look at his tactical knowledge and courage.
What a terrible, terrible spectacle .
I think it will be very hard for the management to make the changes necessary. It is going to have to be done however. I've seen previous managers change formations and style in very quick order. I'm worried PW cannot.
-- Edited by ian on Saturday 11th of September 2021 07:54:01 PM
i think warne and co have reached their zenith, his tactics are easily read and we will be lucky to be middle table
I just got round to listening to PWs interview. I just watched my first bit of live tennis since the 80s and it was very good indeed. Top level players in any sport are those who have everything, including a better coach, training facilities and medical/sports/nutritional care.
Today, their manager was much better . As for the other bits I can only ponder.
Anyways, back to the interview.
I cannot disagree vehemently with anything he said, but, I do have to wonder at what he said he couldn't say. He said there was no issue with the build up, but accepted we were not focused at the whistle. He said there were issues on the pitch he couldn't address and issues he will keep in-house.
However, he then said we played well enough to win it , but admitted the better team won. He cites the crazy world of football.
If I'm honest there was no acknowledgement about the tactics . Apparently, they scored from every shot This was an excuse not an observation . Not what I think he should be saying.
He did feign some excuses by citing missed chances and ferguson not being fit
It just seems a sorry interview when every fan sees the issue. I think he should say he got it wrong . It will catch up on him whether he tells the truth or not, but if he really didn't see it today then it remains the biggest concern.
-- Edited by ian on Saturday 11th of September 2021 11:55:36 PM
A lot of good comment and observations on here. I rate Harding highly as a right back on his performances last season. However, at left of a back three he gets in bad positions and gives too much room. Wood was done for pace by a very good player in Morton and Ihiekwe is much better in a back four imo. The millers fans have taken to the Viking as he looks a character. For me he has a long way to go to become a top class goalkeeper and i believe his lack of size will stop him becoming it (that will not be popular). Not sure whether it is time to give Vickers a chance(back at his old club on Tuesday) but it can't be far off. Viking wasn't faultless with their first goal in particular yesterday.
With Miller and Ferguson out yesterday it left us with a very unbalanced left side and credit to Fleetwood, they played on it. Sadlier is not a left sided wing back. I really feel for Sadlier as i believe he has a lot to offer either behind a loan striker or in an attacking role in a midfield five.
At half time we went in 2-1 up and although not playing well we had around eight shots at goal compared to Fleetwoods couple. They set off well in the second half got in front and we never really looked like turning it around. Warne went three up front with the addition of Grigg and barlaser gave us a bit of composure which had been lacking. Wiles had a poor 70 minutes but improved at the end and was trying to drive us forward. i am not totally convinced with what Lindsay offers other than a terrier in the middle. I do not see him has somebody who is comfortable on the ball and able to pass it from midfield. Ladapo offers so little especially if he is not scoring.
Two difficult games coming up against two sides who scored five yesterday away from home ! i don't think we have to go mad and make several changes but a couple of changes in personnel, possibly reverting to a back four with Ihiekwe and Harding on the right of it and Sadlier playing in the number ten role behind Smith would suit me. Still a long way to go and hopefully no shouts of Warne and Barker out. Not yet anyway.
Thats my issue with warne and co they dont learn lessons they keep playing same
style missing midfield, players out of position, not subbing certain players no matter how bad they are, before was mattock now its wiles.
For me its time for a change fresh ideas, if it means new.management so be it
smiler you really are a pompous xxxx arent you. You think you are clever by avoiding the criticism of you comments by playing around it, trust me you are not that smart. You avoid the fact that you stated clearly that you thought we had enough cover at CB and it isn't looking that way. Harding also stated at Birmingham that he felt his best position was right full back, mattock also previously in his career got into trouble for allegedly beating up a woman, both what position he started out in and his previous run in with te law are not relevant, at Rotherham he has played the majority of the games at left back and that is his best position. we are short in the centre of defense of players that have experience and can play 30 to 40 times a year.
One swallow doesn't make a summer Hillborough. Before yesterday we had played 5 league games and only let 3 goals in. Tilt has played a little over an hour for us in his time here. Now he might be decent and i do think if possible we should have given him a go as cover for Wood or even in his place. It looks like we needed one out to get Grigg in and as Tilt was keen to play and enjoyed his time at Wigan (which his part of his country) we decided it was good business. It would be nice to know if Angus is going to figure sometime soon. However, we have some cover at the back. Edmunds Green, Hull, Mattock, Bola and Odoffin has played as a central defender in Scottish football. At a push Wiles and Ferguson can play left back but i would hope they never have to. Not sure the defensive problems yesterday were down to letting Tilt go out on loan as very few people have seen him play any time for us.
I think that list of central defender options actually underlined the point. We don't have a good and recognised paring to replace either one of icky or wood. As it is it makes the playing of those two in a back 3 look weak. Compared to the kind of solid foundation we have had prior to warneys reign it does worry me. With sads, ogbene , miller being used we look good at times but it depends to much on what the opposition do as well as playing the supporting midfielders in their right roles. It just looks a mess at the moment. I understand the temptation for a 5 in the middle because without it we don't create any overlaps or angles for wide play and thus gaps in the Box However, those 2 wide players looked pretty awful and were taken out of the game too easily by fleetwoods better hold up play and runs through the centre and easily around our missing defence . With only 2 at the back at times we looked like a kids team . The centre pair were drawn too far upfield to make up for sacrificing the middle of the park with sads and ogbene playing high and isolated. It was very disjointed . Its like trying to herd a pack of cats.
At around 25 minutes it became obvious we were second best and I'd like to think I would have had the courage of my convictions and my team were coached enough to switch the formation. Perhaps that's wishful thinking but it's certainly what was needed.
The next question is how we set up against of different opposition each week. On current evidence we look well short of a top 10 finish nevermind a top 6. It wasn't just this game. Wigan managed us . The Massive found a way to beat us. And now fleetwood. 3 losses already. That's not a stat that translates to a top 10 finish. Like last season PW and those in the media and fans can, if they like, continue to say what if, and but, and we were unlucky, and next time, but that's not how winning is . Winning is when results follow performance.
You wouldn't play with your left hand at tennis ; pitch with your weak arm at baseball, or box orthodox if you are a natural Southpaw. You don't win a freestyle race in swimming with a world champion at breaststroke and a cage fighter with a great ground game won't beat a slugger unless he gets him in a clinch. Really, I can't think of a time when at elite level any human or animal excels unless you identify the strengths and play to them and coach those abilities. Of course we may be suffering from the fact we don't have the infrastructure that's currently better than those at this level. On paper we do however. So, are we underperforming. I think we certainly are. The players are better than we have seen for much of our games.
Earn the right to play is another phrase that's used commonly. We certainly didn't do that , but again, let's not distract from the fact we looked awful on Saturday, the set up was awful and the management of the game was also awful.
PW, and support staff.. its over to you. You get a huge amount of money so time to dig deep and earn it.
-- Edited by ian on Sunday 12th of September 2021 02:56:48 PM
has Warne taken us as far as he can, as he isn't learning his lessons
where do I want my club to be, fighting promotion or mid-table
IMO opinion, the formation and tactics showed Warne is either too stubborn or just incapable of reacting to the game and changing the game plan during a game. He was stood there like a statue. his quote sums it
“I felt the belief drained out of the lads. The lads have been excellent, but that’s our worst performance of the season. It’s a worry. All that aside I still think we created enough chances to win – I’m not being delusional. YES YOU ARE
I have said before and will say it again, there are more capable managers out there to take over and manage this squad of players more successfully if Warne doesn't change things
-- Edited by hillsborough miller on Monday 13th of September 2021 07:33:42 AM
-- Edited by hillsborough miller on Monday 13th of September 2021 07:43:02 AM
On reflection it was one of those days. 2-1 up at half time and we were on top - maybe put Grigg on after 60 when Freddy looked spent and a tactical change to support the CB who was being roasted by their striker [top quality that lad] - but there was a touch of fortune in their goals, one looked like a foul, one an offside and the final one was a worldy that got my applause tbh.
We had a lot of chances to get ahead ourselves before the meltdown - so we should not be panicking and calling for anyone's head [although some on here just have it in for PW] - we have a good team and will win more than we lose in this division.
The booing was a load of *******s too and not what's called for mid game when the players need a lift.
I'm not sure if out supporters are any different to others and I know it cuts both ways (the team has to give the supporters something to get behind), but there does seem to be an unpleasant Owls-like sense of entitlement that has grown up - maybe from having got out of league one in all if the last three attempts so we are too big for it now? A significant section of the fan base doesnt need much to go wrong before they turn. It's a bit cringeworthy. We arent going to play well every week and we arent going to win every week. In truth a section of the support never wanted Warne in charge because he isnt flamboyant like Evans (the kindest description I could think of) and isnt a 'big name'. Some cant or wont ever take to him, and any time we lose a couple of games in a row (or even one in a row!) they cant wait to have a pop. It's an unhelpful undercurrent.
Im not anti warne, it s a case of imo he is making same mistakes time and again like when he stuck with 4 3 3 when it was clear to us it wasnt working . Is it either because he cant see them or is unable to make the right decision.
Time will.tell but if he doesnt make changes i believe tony will
smiler you really are a pompous xxxx arent you. You think you are clever by avoiding the criticism of you comments by playing around it, trust me you are not that smart. You avoid the fact that you stated clearly that you thought we had enough cover at CB and it isn't looking that way. Harding also stated at Birmingham that he felt his best position was right full back, mattock also previously in his career got into trouble for allegedly beating up a woman, both what position he started out in and his previous run in with te law are not relevant, at Rotherham he has played the majority of the games at left back and that is his best position. we are short in the centre of defense of players that have experience and can play 30 to 40 times a year.
Charming!
I never said that anyone can play centre back, but that is how you portrayed it. Just like you said a couple of weeks ago that I always defend Warne come what may, which wasn't right either. It is a bit irritating to be misrepresented.
I don't think I'm at all clever, by the way. One or two have come on here in the past telling us that they are qualified in this and that. I am not one of them.
On centre backs we have Wood, Ikky, Angus (when available), Harding, Mattock, Bola, Edmonds-Green and Ofoffin who are all very capable of playing at centre back and who have all done so. Potentially also Hull based on what we saw at Donny. And we can revert to playing two instead of three if needs be. I think we have plenty of good options.
-- Edited by smiler on Monday 13th of September 2021 05:48:52 PM
