It is your opinion that I wear rose tinted glasses. I disagree. I look at what we have at the moment and although I would like us to win every week like everyone else, and notwithstanding the fact that there are things I (from my lay perspective) would like to see us do differently, I am fairly pleased with what we have and where we are. Thanks for at least acknowledging that I am not Warney's agent in disguise! If you recall, I was a bit on the fence as to whether or not he should have carried on into this season, and as much as I respect and like the bloke I am still not sure he made the right decision - for him or for us.
Time will indeed tell.
I think it is an accepted fact that we played a much weakened side against Accrington. This was a discussion about our prospects in the league, so I did not and do not think that the result or performance in a cup game in which we (rightly or wrongly) played a weakened side was of any real relevance. You include it in your stats if you like. I will disregard it in mine. If we had won that game I would do the same.
Revenue from a cup game is good. Revenue from promotion is better. The balance between playing your strongest team versus playing a weakened side for the greater good whilst still hoping to win is a tricky one. I thought Warne summed the dilemma up neatly both pre-match and post-match.
Incidentally, when your man Sadlier failed to convert a spot kick at the weekend you said it isn't a miss if the keeper saves it. When other players have had keepers save their penalties you have bemoaned penalty misses. If I do sometimes shift my opinion to suit the conclusion I want to reach, I certainly don't think I am the only one.
Perhaps there is a bit of the subconscious at work in all of us.
-- Edited by smiler on Tuesday 24th of August 2021 06:48:31 PM
It seems to me that we all agree we won't be pushing for a top 6 at this point.
Smiler agrees with Whiston that around 9th will be fine. Derby thinks we will struggle. Paul David has us midtable and others on this thread think it's perhaps more dire than that.
What seems to be at odds is whether we have a right to criticise or one ought perhaps to say, expect more .
My view continues to be unanswered or ignored. Many, many fans and PW were very clear we looked to good to go down. Many on here said we'd be fine. I think my posts were consistent from the new year on. We'd be relegated. Why did I say that. It wasn't wishful thinking. It wasn't an emotional response. It was based on my honest view of the results and performances.
Now, despite that many fans now feel midtabke is acceptable. What is this based on? I think it's based on a new view. It's somewhat uncomfortable to say , but its easier to say we will stay up than it is to say we will finish top 6 or should be aiming for promotion.
I'm liking to bet that the goals in the PW camp are as follows.
Keep it tight.
Try and get an early goal.
If not, continue to press if possible.
Minimum of 7 points from 4 game cycles.
Be around the top 6 by Xmas and continue to month of January.
Press home what we have learnt and set new goals.
Clearly , to be consistent those who felt we were too good to go down need to explain or excuse the midtable scenario as acceptable.
We haven't started the season well and one need only look at the table now and then again after 4 more games to see this pattern in any division.
On the basis of Saturday's performance we will indeed be midtable. Last season we beat Wednesday. This year they look stronger than us
So, for me it seems we all agree but we disagree on it's acceptability.
The argument from my side is that we have strengths and have a full season of playing higher. That should count for something.
The other argument that I'm reluctant to make is that we ate predictable and lacking that belief we had. Whatever we had it wasn't good enough for 2 years on the trot to keep us in the championship, but its just been good enough to get us promoted from league one.
This year it seems this is not so according to all of us.
More interesting views Ian. I see what you are saying, but there is much there that I'm afraid I can't agree with. Not that that will bother you, and neither should it. I don't think Wednesday (who we beat twice last season but who won more points than us during the season) looked stronger than us and I don't think we have started the season poorly. I thought we were better than Wednesday and marginally better than Wigan. We were much better than Plymouth and Morecambe. We have six points from four games and probably deserve more.
I honestly think that as a fan base we have started to take getting out of League One a bit for granted and that we almost expect that to happen. It was a tremendous achievement when Evans (for whom I have no time for credit where it is due) did it and both times when Warne did it.
To get automatic promotion we will have to finish above some big clubs with some big budgets and big expectations (the likes of Ipswich, Sunderland, Wednesday, Charlton and Portsmouth) and some good sides not mentioned there. Just to be clear, I don't think I did agree with Whiston that we would finish about ninth. I suspect that we will finish outside the top two but I wouldn't rule top two out. I think we have a fair chance of finishing in the top six. If we did it would be no mean effort.
What about putting our necks on the line? Where exactly will we finish?
I am happy to have first stab at it. I think we will finish sixth. There you go. Anybody else?
My observations on the lack of strikers would be the same if we had won all 5 games. The fact is we probably very near to achieving that but it would only paper over the perennial problem. The way we play has in the past, at league 1 level been successful, but I feel we have been found out.
We need to develop a way of playing that gets the best of the players we have. Jamie Lindsay is a good player, far better than we use him. Ogbene needs the support of a good fullback. That player is Wes Harding. Shane Ferguson is a good left back but he needs the reassurance that he has cover when attacking. Michael Smith needs a partner that will play with him and share the hard work. We do not have that player so therefore I would play him up front on his own and get midfield to support.
I think we need to return to 451. This can be a very attacking formation if played correctly. We certainly have the midfield to be successful.
i never like to ask for managers to be replaced but I feel that with a different voice we could have avoided relegation. That would not solve the personnel problems we have but we might have improved in some areas and style.
I'll go for a top six finish and, if we get a striker in before the window closes, we could push close for an automatic place. I don't pay too much attention to early season results. Every team is adjusting to new players, some riding on the confidence of last year's promotion and others hoping that the recent relegation wasn't a sign of a terminal decline. Good teams will sort themselves out by game ten and we'll then see the shape of things to come later in the season.
I like the look of many of our new signings. Rathbone is particularly impressive and he has the vision and workrate of Frecklington. If he can start to add goals to his game, he will be a star. We went through a stage when Lindsay was our most prolific scorer and I'd like to see him redevelop that quality. Fergusson is a good signing and his delivery from the left is usually good quality. We've not seen too much of our other signings so the jury's out at the moment.
It's great to see Chieo back to his best. I forgive him on the odd occasions when he doesn't beat a defender because most of the time he puts the fear of god into left backs. Smith is essential for our ambitions this season. I would hate to see him go as he is usually at the centre of all that we do up front. I'm impressed with Kayode and don't mind him starting games. He has a great work ethic, good pace and if he gets a goal, we could find ourselves with a young star on our hands.
I worry about Lapado, Sadlier and Mattock and I'm not sure that any of them have either the inclination nor the ability to do a job for us anymore.
There are many reasons to be cheerful as a Rotherham fan. Firstly, we're back in our fabulous stadium. We're in a relatively sound financial position - imagine being an Owls fan and wondering when the next penalty is going to be applied. We have a manager who is Rotherham through and through and knows how to get out of this division. I'm a glass half full guy and I'm aware that on every board of every club in the country, the same type discussions will be taking place. We at Rotherham have more reasons than most to be optimistic about our future.
I am unsure where we will finish, this uncertainty is more down to what mood I am in so it moves around a lot :). On balance I think we have some good players and like others I think keeping that group together past the transfer deadline is crucial, my only player i don't include in that is Mattock I feel at this stage of his career he is a waste of a wage. I do agree with others that have said our way of playing is well understood by others and we may have been found out a little, the lack of an ability to change the style of football is a concern, but then so is the overall quality of coaching. Without strengthening the forward options I cannot see us as a top six team, if Warne achieves that then it will be a great achievement, I think if we avoid anymore injuries we will be top half probably 9th or 10th. If we get a few injuries and we haven't strengthened then 12th or 13th and if Smith goes without a quality replacement upper levels of the bottom half of the table.
I don't expect us to top the league every year, i do expect us to play attractive football and to be keeping us in with a top 6 finish until the last few weeks, the reason for that is the stability at the club and as stated by others there is a lot of championship experience in this squad. Last point I think we miss a fit Angus macDonald, it is unclear what the issue is with him, I hope it isn't a return of his cancer I thought he gave everything for the shirt last year (I also didn't know he previously dated Alexandra Burke, well done lad and then Rachel fenton)
No doubt Angus would be a strong league one player. The lack of information about any specific injury is itself a bit worrying for obvious reasons. Hopefully it's a case of putting two and two together and coming up with five. In any case, I'm sure we all look forward to seeing a fit and well Angus back in a Millers shirt.
Good effort Angus. No idea who any of them are, but , I can still appreciate punching above ones weight... maybe he's gorgeous-how would I know.
It's all down to smudge for me. If he stays and we get another striker then we might hang onto the coat tails of the top 6. Without that I think we will come up short and end up 8th-9th.
I'm still hoping for a change in tactics and ,I still would like to see sadlier given a striking role. Difficult for us supporters. We don't see them every day . Still, who else can strike a ball that we'll?
