Not unduly bothered about the result tonight. Looking forward to seeing the new signings play. I suspect they will probably all start. I'd like to see Kayode get another run out. He did alright against Middlesbrough but this is a competitive game against what is now an established league one side so will be a better test. I'd also like to see Sadlier start and make a mark. Looking at Mad, Gru has already decided that Edmonds-Green is a great player based on how he ran down the touchline when warming up. Seriously! Let's hope that for once his magic eye is right. I'd go with: Chapman: Ogbene, Edmond-Green, Hull, Harding, Ferguson: Odoffin, Rathbone, Sadlier: Smith, Kayode.
Accrington were so much brighter than us first half, it was a bit embarrassing. Having said that take several key players out and throw loads of new players together against a solid league one side and that isnt surprising. With the likes of Smith and Ogbene on we were a different proposition. Great goal from Sadlier. I hope it gives him a confidence boost. I thought he was otherwise disappointing. A sharp contrast to the excellent Ollie Rathbone who had a tremendous debut, always wanting the ball even in tight areas and always trying to make things happen. He looks a real player. Ferguson also looks a good footballer with a good left foot. They were the positives for me. One final point - what dont referees understand about time wasting? Their keeper got his first warning after an hour. He kept wasting time and got four more warnings. Each warning took more time out of the game. Eventually he booked him in the 93rd minute. Too late ref. Of itself, a total waste of time. In fact by that stage the keeper probably wanted to be booked because that process killed another thirty seconds. If he was going to book him it had to be sooner to have any effect. Does the ref not realise that he was played like a fiddle? What isnt he understanding?
First half we were very poor, playing long ball to two strikers that play to feet or on the turn against a back four all giants absolute garbage tactics, poor barlasar was completely bypassed. Second half much better sadlier played a roaming role from the centre and was at the heart of everything in that half yes he made a few poor pass choices but he is a league one player and when he lost it he chased back to get the ball again and was always available and wanting the ball, changed the game also we played the ball out from the back more. Rathbone had a good game as did number 23 at the back. Now to their goals oh dear oh dear. Firstly what excellent game management from them every touch got a foul they played the ref beautifully I can never understand why we don't learn how to do that. First goal a number of errors first not getting in front of the keeper to stop the quick break second mattock what was he doing letting the player cut inside basic defending skills he got goal side and then lost him. Second goal not marking a throw in then four players rushing at the player like school kids including our left sided Central defender leaving space for the shot, good save no defenders following in. Some good points and we will have to improve and learn the darker arts if we expect to win against teams like this but I like the signings, I think sadlier needs a run of games in that central creative role and kayode has real potential. Poor result, awful management preparation for the first half (credit for halftime change) but enough positives in the new players we also signed another lad today so great to see him at half-time as well, just need another goal poacher now
I'm cutting Joe Mattock a bit of slack with his general performance, it being his first game back after a layoff, but as an experienced defender he should have done way better for their first goal than he did. It was disappointing defending from an experienced player. The goal is what people will remember from Sadlier and it was brilliant, so credit for that where it is due. That aside though I thought he was disappointing again. Kayode did alright. He spent most of the first half competing n the air against defenders half a foot taller he is. Second half when he got the ball to feet a bit or in behind defenders he caused a few problems. I dont think he is going to be a regular starter just yet but he looks like he can offer something at the level. Incidentally I thought the movement and link up play of Accy's front two was outstanding all night.
Bad night for Victor. The first squeezed under his hand and the second should have been parried over the bar. Apart from his goal, I thought Sadlier was poor. I really liked Rathbone's energy and I think he's going to be snapping at Wiles' heels. Kayode and Lapado together - a big no. Kayode and Smith - yes please. I thought all our new players showed promise. Not disappointed at the result - it was merely an opportunity to let the new boys get some game time and show their worth. Saturday will be the real test and will give us a clue about how we stand in the League One pecking order.
I agree with most of what Derby has said. We were terrible in the first half hitting hopeful balls to two strikers who had no chance against several big defenders who were put under no pressure. The ball bypassed midfield with Barlaser unable to get on the ball. I cannot remember defenders or midfielders going short to receive the ball from the goalkeeper to initiate play in the first half. In the second half it improved with Ihiekwe in particular wanting to bring the ball forward instead of the goalkeeper hoofing it.
I think several players looked short of fitness and some look like all they will play is bit parts. Odoffin looked way of the pace to me and i will judge him better in a month or so's time. Mattock can only be considered if our new signing from Arsenal i believe, needs time. I would not trust Mattock to start in division one atm. Ferguson looks like a left footed Billy Jones, neat and tidy and can cross a ball. Whether he has the legs to be a threat out wide i would doubt. I think he might feature away from home for tightening up a left side. I thought Green(the lad from Huddersfield) was a passenger in a defensive role. Poorly positioned and not good enough in the air. Going forward he looked ok. Rathbone was the one who looked the real deal to these eyes. Aggressive, good in tight situations and willing to run and run. Sadlier was played wide right and tried hard to impress. It just didn't happen for him in the first half. In the second half in a more central role i thought he looked decent. Influencing play and looked a threat. Very difficult to judge Ladapo because he was given little chance by the service he received. I just think he has too many games where his contribution is virtually nothing. Kayode improved when Smith came on and he will get better as the season progresses. A tough game on Saturday with tough decisions to make. I am thinking Warne will go with a similar team to the one that played against Plymouth. I would leave ladapo out and play Saddlier in the Crooks role. He might leave Miller out and go with the steady Eddie Ferguson to keep it tight.
I will make my case for Sadlier on a fresh post, I think it is worth a discussion. You all know I do not rate the coaching set-up at the club, and I know my view is not popular, but they make it easy for me to poke holes in them. I genuinely believe that better coaching would get more from our best skilful players, I think our set-up is best for workers and runners and we cannot deal with a player that has a little bit of something different. You can take all the badges and exams in the world it doesn't make you a good coach it only provides the raw materials to use, it is like taking a law degree, you can get a first but it doesn't make you a good lawyer. Warnes post match interview told us so much, he openly states that we played the ball long in the first half against the three biggest defenders we will meet, he stated that we will have to coach the players to BE ABLE to play out from the back, he said that isn't our game admitting it is the long ball, bypassing midfield using pace on the wings. Is that the football you all want to see? You cannot tell me that we don't have the players to be able to create triangles, find a few yards of space and pass a ball 5 to 10 yards, we need to be able to adapt our style in games and not just put on Smith and hope he can hold it up. To admit that we played like that, has to come from the coaching, players don't go on the pitch and just choose to ignore the plan, and even if they did there was no ranting from the dug out, they had numerous breaks in play during the first half to address the issue, no the players did as they were told, hoof to two strikers that play off the shoulder of the defenders on the ground. We pump our dressing room full of midfielders then hoof it forward to Smith, it is awful waste of talent. That coaching team needs fresh blood with a different view, not asking for anyone to be sacked I want us to invest some of our limited resources with some new ideas and be able to play different ways. Both AS and Plymouth played on the ground and could adapt the style to play out from the back, better teams will run us ragged if we don't address the style and the lack of possession that style brings.
"he stated that we will have to coach the players to BE ABLE to play out from the back, he said that isn't our game admitting it is the long ball, bypassing midfield using pace on the wings."
did he say that Derby!??
If so, not good. It flies in the face of Warne's tendency to bring in 100 midfielders every season..
I'm all in favour of using wingers, but surely in Barlaser and Rathbone we have two players that can pass a ball?
So I agree with you. I thought last year, in a league above, we always looked best when 'playing football'. In this league we should be able to play through the middle. Also - Freddie is best when the ball is played to feet, Kayode prob same.
We have enough quality to break teams down and create chances from moves, if we play hoof ball we will not get promoted...
I agree with Glenn, Viktor was at fault for both Stanley goals alongside Mattock for the first.
I like Rathbone, my type of busy combative player that makes things happen & Kayode looked good 2nd half when the rest of the team realised he's not a target man. Sadlier was decent 2nd half probably trying a little too hard to impress but one belter of a free kick. Not Barlaser's type of game as he was bullied out of it, Freddie didn't look particularly nterested & we were deservedly beaten but with our Cup pedigree is anyone surprised?
David it wasn't word for word, i was going to write it down but I forgot it was similar he did admit playing from the back wasn't our game and they would have to work with the players on it
What he actually said (the interview is on the official site) is that we didnt have a focal point with Smith not playing and with them having giants at the back, and that they were trying to encourage the players to play out from the back a bit more which isnt our normal game. He also said that in this division we are going to come up against teams who try to out muscle us and there will be times when we have to play out more, and that the players need to have the confidence to do that. It wasnt quite as stark as saying that they are going to have to coach the players how to do it. It was a case of instilling the confidence in them to do it. It seems to me that he recognises that at times we will have to build from the back and that he is encouraging the players to do that when the game demands it. It also seems to me that that is what he wanted last night but that the players on the pitch didnt deliver - certainly not in the first half. In a nutshell, we need to be able to adapt and play in different ways in different games and that seems to be what the manager is looking for.
so smiler what you are saying is that the instructions from the management were not followed by the players? That the players do not have confidence to play out from the back - why is that? giving your staff confidence is the job of the coaching staff. making your instructions clear is the job of the coaching staff. Also being we knew we didn't have Smith and we knew they had big defenders why send the players out there unprepared and with no plan B that they were capable of implementing?
All these things are the job of the coaching staff and that is my bigger point, that staff needs strengthening and some new fresh ideas in there, ideally someone that can man manage the players on a day to day basis to give them confidence to play football
so smiler what you are saying is that the instructions from the management were not followed by the players? That the players do not have confidence to play out from the back - why is that? giving your staff confidence is the job of the coaching staff. making your instructions clear is the job of the coaching staff. Also being we knew we didn't have Smith and we knew they had big defenders why send the players out there unprepared and with no plan B that they were capable of implementing?
All these things are the job of the coaching staff and that is my bigger point, that staff needs strengthening and some new fresh ideas in there, ideally someone that can man manage the players on a day to day basis to give them confidence to play football
I wasn't in the pre-match meeting/changing room, but of course we knew that they had massive centre backs and that Smith wasn't starting. I don't know for sure, but my interpretation of Warne's words is that the players were asked to play out more from the back and that they didn't do it very well.
As to why that was - it is likely to have been due a combination of different factors. We had a number of players who were playing together for the first time or who were making their first appearance for a while. Sometimes players have poor games. Some credit perhaps has to go to the opposition who played very well during the first half, pressed us very high and made it difficult for us to get out. And yes, possibly the management team not getting it quite right. That can happen. And to be fair to Warne he is humble enough to acknowledge that occasionally, unlike others well known to us who would sooner blame the kit man than ever accept personal responsibility for anything.
In fairness, we improved as the game went on. That might also be due to a combination of factors. Possibly the management team tweaking a few things (it was notable that Rathbone in particular was dropping deeper to get the ball off the centre backs in the second half whereas none of the midfielders were doing that much in the first), possibly the introduction of different (in some cases better) players, and possibly Accrington struggling to maintain their high press as effectively over time due to tiredness setting in. Taking Saturday and Tuesday together, I think the manager's comments were fair enough. We weren't great against Plymouth but got a solid win. We were poor against Accrington but went into it with a side that wasn't likely to perform brilliantly, and grew into the game and improved during it. There are things to take from those games and work on.
Last thing. Warne clearly favours a style that involves getting the ball forward quickly, getting it wide quickly and getting crosses into the box. You pay your money and you take your choice as to whether you like that or whether you would like us to be more sophisticated than that. I think I would. I do think though that not only are we capable of playing more 'football', I have actually seen us play some great football many times during Warne's stewardship. I don't think we are one dimensional. I think he wants a side that can adapt and play whatever way it needs to to win football matches, which we have consistently managed to do at League One level. I think it is harder for us to play 'progressive football' in the Championship, because we just can't afford the quality of player that will be able to consistently out-football teams with budgets that dwarf our own.
fair points there Smiler, I do agree AS need credit for the game they played. I do agree we can play football and I have seen us do it in the past, it is a shame that we don't do it more, if Smith moves on perhaps we will adapt to suit the players we have.
There might be an element of 'Peter Crouch Syndrome' about us at times. Sometimes because there is a big target man up there you feel obliged to knock it long to him. In fairness to Smith, he can play a bit as well given the opportunity. He is far from being a big lump. I think we have a good group of players, think we will have a decent season, and believe that although it won't be every week we will play some good football along the way.
But if we don't play football and play without using our midfield with the riches I beleive we have for this level... I'll begin to sound like GWRU in a few games..
(unless we play hoofball and win every game in which case I'll be happy and keep schtum)
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-- Edited by Davidedin on Thursday 12th of August 2021 07:15:31 PM
