If ajayi goes to leeds, we need good money for him and we need to spend on a replacement. It will mean 18 departures from the club and our two best players last season both sold. 6 players in is not good enough in those cir***stances and anyone that thinks it is is kidding themselves
Apart from Vaulks, Purrington & Williams won't miss any of the others who've gone. Rodak he's better than what we are left with but I didn't like him when he was Mr punch. Vyner not a right back, wouldn't trust him at centre back either. Potter was past his best when we got him. Palmer he's never been good enough. Forde, Taylor & Newell not up to it for one reason or another. Newell had the skill but not one you'd need when you had to tough it out. Yates another in the end proved to be not good enough. Manny, Bray forgot they were here. Da Ball lightweight. Dom Ball I liked but Warney didn't. Towell was a disappointment last season. If I've forgot anyone they can't have done anything to remember then by.
gwru we will miss the depth of squad, you may or may not be right about individual players, but the fact is our squad from last year has been vastly reduced and last year we still had games with no cover on the bench. We went down by 4 points, we threw away 2 points against bristol City at home with a very weak bench and no forward to put on. You yourself have said some of our squad are crocks, modern football is not about the first 11 it is about the first 18 and the others pushing to get that place. Where is mattocks incentive next year, he has peaked last year at Rotherham, no competition for his place, a management team favourite and a free agent at the end of the year able to sign for someone else in january.
I am telling you, the lack of depth in this squad will hurt us and it is a conscious decision by the board to vastly reduce costs just like last year, they know most fans are stupid and will focus on the 6 coming in and if warne told them that the pitch was yellow they would believe him.
Purrington wouldn't stop to be on the bench. Robertson can cover left back, Jones also. Hinds might come through. Last seasons gone. Depth of the squad wasn't good enough then. Players that's gone apart from who've I've mentioned Vaulks, Purrington & Williams would be the same not good enough. Rip it up & start again. This transfer window best I can remember. Keeper, right & left wingers needed then we'll be good to go. When,if Ajayi goes get his replacement in. Price 6 defenders 4 midfielders 1 winger 4 forwards, add 3 will give us 18. A couple of loans in will give us 20.
gwru 20 is not enough this is a cost cutting exercise and I am placing down my view we will lose critical points due to squad depth this season, i will remind you of the fact you think that playing players out of natural position, relying on kids and only having 17 outfield players is enough to do well when you are moaning at the results a few months in
I am not sure we have vastly reduced costs Derby. Yes, we will have got costs down because we have dropped a division, but we are close to having a squad that should be very competitive in this division. As you say last season we struggled to fill a bench and it was a bit embarrassing to have only one striker with a broken toe. This season we need to sign a keeper, we currently have eight defenders. Hinds is a developing player so i don't think he will feature much apart from cup games. We have moved on four wide players, and hardly replaced them. Lamy is like Hinds, will only feature in cups and Grant Ward would be a major gamble, so i believe we need to get two wide or midfield men in, either on loan or signed. Upfront we have six, again Kayode will only feature in cups so i would loan him or Proctor out.
Last season we were chasing a lot of ball which appeared to take its toll on fitness and we got a lot of injuries. Jones, Robertson, Williams, Towell, Newell, Potter, Vassell and Proctor all had injuries that kept them out for long periods. We also loaned out Ball, Purrington, Ihiekwe, Yates and Dom Ball which depleted the squad and yes got the costs down. Apart from Yates and another striker i do not expect us to loan anybody out. For me its a keeper and two wide/midfield and we are fit to go. If we sell Ajayi or Smith then i would expect replacements for Ajayi at the very least.
it looks like a reducing budget exercise to me too. That's not a criticism only an observation based on the several players gone.
As for squad numbers it becomes a little arbitrary. what's needed in each position is real ability. The idea of like for like replacement is too idealistic, so for me I don't place a high value on it. The best we can hope for is a functional squad that doesnt suffer in terms of seeing a game out when we lose first team players.
Realistically how many first team injuries can a team like ours hope to absorb without compromising the overall quality of the first 11? There is certainly a number one doesnt want to dip below but its always the quality of the 13 or 14 that decide the outcome of the season.
Anyone have any thoughts or stats on the average number of players used in winning teams?
I would suggest in decades gone many teams went the whole season with barely a few changes (bar last few minutes subs).
There may even be an inverse effect beyond a certain size.
Giving this another go - re-energised after a break and looking forward to the new season.
We have let a lot of players go, and taken at face value it is a big number. But of those released David Ball, Dom Ball, Potter, Bray, Yates, Onariase and Purrington played virtually no games between them for us last season. Palmer made four or five starts and a few sub appearances and didn't feature at all in 2019. So that is 8 players gone whose absence isn't really going to have any real impact season on season, some of whom have proved to be just not good enough and others who haven't got any appetite to play for us and be part of what we are doing.
The loanees Rodak, Towell and Vyner all had mixed seasons. They have gone back at the end of their loans. That is what loanees do.
On the four wingers, the general view (which I share) is that none of them really did enough to merit offers of new contracts on big money, and if they can get better deals elsewhere good luck to them. No great loss.
With Vaulks, we got the best deal we could for a wholehearted player with a year on his contract who leaves with all good wishes but who has limitations as a footballer. Honestly I think we got a good deal there.
It seems to me that the players who have come in so far all have plenty to offer and we are recruiting well. As I see it, we currently have a senior squad with 18 players in it as follows: Price, Jones, Olosunde, Ajayi, Ihiekwe, Wood, Robertson, Mattock, Barlaser, Crooks, MacDonald, Wiles, Vassell, Lamy, Smith, Ladapo, Proctor and Morris. That is 18 players. In addition we have four youngsters in Bilboe, Hinds, Kayode and Southern-Cooper who will be looking to push on. Of those, Hinds and Kayode look nearest.
We definitely need to add two or three more players. The management have made it clear that we will definitely add a goalkeeper, and the noises suggest a couple more outfield players will come in. That would give us 20/21 senior players plus the four youngsters mentioned above. The management have also made it clear that if Ajayi goes he will also be replaced. I don't think having a bigger squad than that is healthy - it leaves too many on the sidelines which can create negativity. That size of squad seems right to me, with the option of calling Palmer/Yates back if needed with games under their belts.
I think we are very close to having a good squad. We have a big, strong, athletic side and plenty of players who have been promoted from League One before. We have a good mix of youth and experience, players who can mix it and players who have real ability on the ball. I look through the squad and see plenty of names of players who should be outstanding at this level. Without getting giddy (because it isn't an easy division to get out of) I think we already have the makings of a squad that can mount a serious challenge towards the top end of the table with scope to add a couple more quality players before the season starts.
-- Edited by smiler on Tuesday 9th of July 2019 09:40:58 PM
smiler good to have you back. Your 18. Bit concerned about centre backs. Wood to me should be moved on or retired. That only leaves us 3 incl' Ajayi who I can't see being here at the start of the season. Need 4 centre backs up to the level we are aiming for, challenging for promotion. 4 strikers are the max' who'll be included on a match day squad of 18. So that makes 16 with Lamy who could be anything. Still need another 4 in that's without any of the 1st choice players leaving. Keeper Centre back Right & Left wingers needed. I wouldn't sign Grant Ward. Nobody with ideas of challenging for promotion would sign a Right winger when you haven't really got one who won't be fit well into the new season that's if he'll be fit at all.
-- Edited by gwru on Wednesday 10th of July 2019 05:55:13 AM
Glad you have re energised Smiler and an excellent returning post. Very similar to my thoughts.
I think gwru is being a bit harsh on Wood. We got more points when Wood was in the team last year than when he was out. He also performed well in this division the previous season. I do not expect him to be first choice,but when called upon he will not let anybody down and is a very good organiser. No doubt he is at the end of his career but he will still be of some use to us.
I agree with gwru and everybody that we need a goalkeeper. I have said before Price is a decent goalkeeper but he lets himself down with poor distribution when the ball is sent back to him. Lets hope this season we are not playing the long ball and the goalkeeper rolls it out and we start building from the back. I agree with Gwru that only four strikers will be needed on match days, so as i said before loan out Kayode and if Proctor needs game time him as well. This squad is close to what we need and with a couple of additions i expect us to go close. The formation and how we play is hard to predict but we have more options this season than last in my opinion.
I doubt Warne has got all these forwards in to play one of them up front alone. I know Parkgate was a bit of a knockabout game but first half we had Kayode, Vassell and Smith as a front three and second half Ladapo, Proctor and Morris. In both halves it was difficult to pick out who was the central one of the three. There was a lot of movement and interchanging. It may be that the players we had at our disposal on the day dictated the formation, but all the forwards are fairly mobile and you could imagine any combination playing as a front two or front three. We all love to see a Towner-style winger hugging the touchline but in the modern game many good teams are very successful without out and out wingers. Sheff Utd for example have gone up twice without a winger in sight, relying on full backs bombing forwards to give them width. It will be interesting to see how we set up.
I don't like the idea of playing 3 strikers. I could see Wiles playing on the Right but we haven't got a natural left midfield player *** winger. Someone who can swing a good cross in with his left foot. For instance Vassell & Morris could play on the left but they don't know how to cross they swing their foot & hope for the best. Another thing our midfield Madonald seems our only defensive midfield player. How are we going to fit the other 3 in? can't play them all if we are playing two up front, need some width. Barlaser, Crooks & Willes look attacking midfielders to me. Barlaser sure he hasn't come here to sit on the bench. Still say Wood & Proctor are surplus.
Ajayi played defensive midfield last season Gwru. We have also signed Olosunde who can play right back. That would release Jones into a defensive midfield role if we required him to play there. The squad is taking shape and as said before a Gk and two midfield/ wide men and i think we are there. Like Smiler, i don,t see us playing one up top. We have plenty of options, playing two attacking wing backs (Olosunde and Mattock) might be an option as we don't have many good deliverers of the ball from wide positions, as you have alluded to Gwru.
That's so harsh on Jones gwru. Once fit i thought he looked comfortable at right back. This is a player who has had 430+ appearances in the championship and the premier league. He will do well for us this season if injuries don't strike.
We're not really 11 players down though are we? Five of the players you are counting in that number (Ball, Ball, Purrington, Bray and Oniarise) were not with us at all and most if not all their wages were being paid by other clubs. Same with Yates for half the season. With respect, you keep quoting a big number of departures that might be technically right but doesn't really reflect the realities of the number of players we actually had at the club that we were paying.
We currently have 18 senior players. There will be two or three more players coming in. Warne and Barker have both said so. We will start the season with a squad of minimum 20 senior professionals plus the likes of Bilboe, Hinds, Cooper and Kayode.
We will have had to trim the wage bill a bit, and maybe some of the transfer money in will go towards bridging the gap. All the same, we have the makings of a very strong squad with more to come.
I think i said we will have got costs down because we have gone down a division. Its funny how people see things. On the one hand we are saying we couldn't get a full bench in some games last season and yet we are now saying we are 11 players less than last year. Not sure your maths are correct Derby but what i am saying is we have a squad that would be ready to go in this division with three additions.That would give us around 21 seniors and three/four youngsters. That 's more than enough if we have an average season of injuries. We could also recall Palmer and yates if needs be.
We have signed Ladapo for 500k which to me indicates we have some ambition and also got Barlaser and olosunde over the line ahead of other clubs. For me we have got rid of a fair bit of dead wood and done some decent business.
Sorry Whiston01 - I just noticed that Derbymiller's post was addressed specifically to you. I know you don't need my help in putting your points across.
