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Millers Banter: Unofficial Rotherham United Fans Forum / Message Board → Football / Sport / RUFC Related → Birmingham
 

Topic: Birmingham

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wotsisname
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Two games left to play so I detect no executive decisions will be made just yet about the future of squad players or even the coaching staff. Mr Thrifty owns the club and The Sad Sack, Google that name, has soldiered along this Championship season with limited resources at his disposal. Question. Will there be adequate funding available next season to enable us to compete in League 1? Does Mr Thrifty owe it to the supporters to share his plans regarding the future of our club? I don't think that's too much to ask.



-- Edited by wotsisname on Tuesday 23rd of April 2019 09:43:50 PM

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Exetermiller
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C'mon...really think we'd have a chance this season before a ball was kicked. After our again poor performance in the transfer market particularly summer, then absolutely zero in January, I think the message is loud and clear from the upper hierarchy of RUFC. We are a top end L1 club, if sometimes we have a flirt with the Champ so be it, but we're not going to change our ethos over risk and reward to keep us there...and why should we?...the Rotherham public won't support us?

I think Warney has done about as well as anyone will with the staff and players at his disposal.

If it wasn't for Ipswich and Bolton imploding we'd have been bottom...in the context of everything comparible in this league...where we should be...and it was always going to be about how many implode as much as about what we are able to do.

I think there'll be quite a revolving door this summer, as we've got many out on loan who Warney will want gone, none of the loans in offer us much and I've never agreed you should have a season loan GK, and we've had that 2yrs now. You could argue there's 4 that have been here a while and not proven to offer us anything different in Forde, Newell, Taylor and you could argue Mattock. Woody should get nowhere near the 1st team, should have been coaching this season and not stupidly given a 2yr playing contract.

We need to recycle quite a lot of the squad, and we all know that can cause extremes of what L1 will pan out to be...but has the management team got the balls to do it?

How many more season ticket holders will we lose? We should look at Peterborough, all that yo-yoing didn't do them any good 15yrs ago eventually ending up in L2



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TH MILLER
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I have been talking to a lot supporters if they are going to renew there season tickets I haven't heard one saying there not all say the same thing brilliant ground very fair prices still willing to support the club now I might be reading it wrong but I feel there is a very hard core of fans who will support the club àll we want is a bit of hope needs players in these last two games to give us something back.

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BradtheMiller
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Can't agree with you Exetermiller regarding Mattock, player of the season for me.

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gwru
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Agree with EM major re-cycling required. Keep if they'll stop. Rodak Ajayi Ihiekwe Robertson Mattock Williams Vaulks Crooks Wiles Smith. Can go Price Vyner Jones Wood both Balls Purrington Towell Potter Palmer Taylor Forde Newell Yates Vassell Proctor Bray Manny. Might have forgot someone. Got to be done. As I've said if Warney can't do it get somebody who can. Somebody on here said TS left early Monday. Last time I heard he'd gone early was when we lost to Fulham just before Evans left. Read into that what you like.

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hillsborough miller
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I can't see Tony sacking Warne But you never know. One thing I do know is Warne needs to tell the stewarts money will be needed serious money to rebuild the squad And one more thing if we are still.playing that same formation and style.of play next season I will be shouting my opinion at the dugout and the directors box

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gwru
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Formation is not the problem. This season we didn't have a championship right back. We were always a player short in midfield. Only winger we had good enough was Williams. Don't know with him if he wants away but he needs games to bring him up to speed, been out for a while.

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wotsisname
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Can anyone confirm or deny that Mr Thrifty did indeed leave his seat before the end of the Birmingham game? I don't attach any significance to that. Nor do I believe that there'll be a Stewarts Enquiry into how we failed to hold on to a 1-0 lead and then build on it.
As you were!

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Exetermiller
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I do agree Mattock has done well, it was more a pipe and slippers reference, he has no competition for LB, he's not exactly getting any younger in a game which increasingly involves fast young full backs who can get forward and do some damage.

4-2-3-1 is about game control and will serve us well in L1, as long as the 3 have goals in them, not enough of ours do but I guess can be addressed if like we can see maybe 50% of the squad needs recycling.

I still reckon we're absolutely skint and still running a loss that ASD are making up with over the top advertising income. In fairness to TS he could have loaned this to the club as the Booths did (and why when he put us up for sale we were more expensive than QPR!). The board have absolutely got to get other revenue going in and around NYS as a matter of priority. NYS should be a retail / entertainment hub that RUFC make money from and not RUFC holdings who I presume own the land as well as the stadium (separate from RUFC who are tenants?).

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Iwasatvillapark
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What I cannot understand is the team selection v Birmingham. This was a must not lose game so I would have expected us to play our strongest xi. To leave Robertson out, who in my opinion has been our best defender this season is baffling.

We play a system which is supposed to be 451 but in my opinion it is 431 with two spectators on the wings. Non of our 4 wingers is good enough for this division. They are not reliable going forward and in all cases cannot defend. An example would be the half hearted tackle prior to Birmingham’S first goal.

Next season will hopefully see an influx of new players who are capable off playing what ever system is decided upon. This years probable relegation is self inflicted we do not have the players capable of competing week in week out. Although I do not think the standard of the Championship is as good as pundits make out. We have been in a lot of games and failed for whatever reason to hold on to leads. I would let all four wingers leave,plus the obvious players who have not contributed this season. I feel Vaulks and Ajayi will leave to further their international prospects. Although I think Vaulks will only go to a club where he feels he will play. I have seen nothing from Vassell which inspires me and likewise Palmer. So there’s a big job to do in the summer I just hope we are up to it.

I will be there next season,what else is there to do on a Saturday.

Sorry I forgot I personally would have no loan players.

 

 

 



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derbymiller
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for me I would like some transparency, the club expect us to buy season tickets, shirts etc I do not think it is asking much for them to communicate their plans short, medium and long term. What are the plans for the youth system would be a start. Some people on facebook say it is all going in the right direction, I am glad they do not manage my investments if they think that. Yes we should remember the bad days and those awful nights at DV, but we should use that to drive us to better things not wear those days as a chain around our neck. We are about to have a second relegation in 3 seasons, we have not done better than our last time in the championship we have done a lot worse, last time we were there for 3 seasons this time we are down in 1, how is that better?????
The last time we were in the championship, Luton and Lincoln were non-league clubs, Luton will be back in the championship (likely with Barnsley) and we will be playing Lincoln next season. Next season we could be the lowest placed club in south yorkshire, how is that progress.? I am very grateful to TS for saving our club, but do we have to say that constantly, a plan to create a sustainable championship club is what we should be aiming for.
Now I think we all know that the lack of investment this year was to allow the owners to extract money from the much higher revenue to offset their previous investments, they are entitled to do that, it is their club. What annoys me is the deceit and misleading comments that come out after promotion and in interviews during the season, regarding investment in the squad, please do not lie to us, we are not stupid, show us the respect of honesty and openness. People say that Warne is a good leader with intelligence and the agenda of good human beings etc. I do not see it at all, a good leader surrounds themselves with talented people, supports them and empowers them. The latter parts I see some of that, but he will not have people around him that challenge him, he has his friends and that is a huge weakness for me. Clearly tactically prior to games and during games the Millers bench has been found wanting, there needs to be a better coach on that bench with Warne, has he got the balls to sort that out or do the board need to make it clear. It took us over 18 months to remove a failing recruitment manager, a man that it is stated reported to Warne that delay in that change hurt us a lot, this summer hard decisions need to be taken, boldness and assertiveness are required, these can sit well with the emotional intelligence mantra, read any leadership academic material and you will see a balanced approach is required. I hope Warne proves me wrong and starts to show some boldness and I hope the owners share their plans and help us to help them in goals that we can all buy into, because whether we agree with each other on discussion boards or not, we all love this club and most of us have been and will be here long after all these players, managers and even owners have gone. UTM

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TH MILLER
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Just come back from renewing my season ticket still feel down from Mondays pathetic performance not looking forward to Saturdays game when we will be relegated I think this one is going to be very hard for the fans to take the club has got to give something back to us to give confidence for the next season the manager seems to have gone into his shell and so have the players to de honest he does not fill me with confidence get Steve Evans back my No 1 choice can any of you tell anybody better.

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Exetermiller
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TH MILLER wrote:

Just come back from renewing my season ticket still feel down from Mondays pathetic performance not looking forward to Saturdays game when we will be relegated I think this one is going to be very hard for the fans to take the club has got to give something back to us to give confidence for the next season the manager seems to have gone into his shell and so have the players to de honest he does not fill me with confidence get Steve Evans back my No 1 choice can any of you tell anybody better.

 Steve Evans has been found out and left a disaster in his wake of every club he's been at that takes years to remedy.  Of course if you're a club owner and short term immediacy is all you want then go ahead, that's what we needed going into a new stadium and the bounce that creates. You then look at Donny who stayed with the short sighted approach after building Keepmoat.  To all intents and purposes, size of Donny, less competition? they should be more a sustainable Champ club than we are.  After their initial 5 years bounce they've struggled completely...do we want that to happen to us?

NYS is a beautiful stadium but its like a magician - it uses diversion to what's really going on, the club don't own the ground, do we even own the training ground? we operate at a loss season on season, there is only 1 way this is going to end up unless we get more revenue coming in for the club, not RUFC Holdings, not the Chairman, the club.  We need more operating revenue as a club.  TS rules with prudency because we don't get enough revenue neither have the capital to support borrowing / investment so I get that.  What I don't get and want answers to is why are all the units still empty?, why has G&C gone quiet?, surely after the fire the pressure should have been applied to get it sorted for commercial / retail / hospitality use?  These are all jobs for the top tier running our club and it seems like nothing is or has been happening for quite a while and it's getting a bit silly.



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Towdlad
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Exetermiller wrote:

C'mon...really think we'd have a chance this season before a ball was kicked. After our again poor performance in the transfer market particularly summer, then absolutely zero in January, I think the message is loud and clear from the upper hierarchy of RUFC. We are a top end L1 club, if sometimes we have a flirt with the Champ so be it, but we're not going to change our ethos over risk and reward to keep us there...and why should we?...the Rotherham public won't support us?




Exeter, in my opinion the reason we dont get the Rotherham public through the doors is because we throw away chance after chance of establishing the club in the Championship.

It started back in the 80/81 season when we went up as champions, Millmoor was chocka every week, but instead of building on that success within a couple of season we were back down. Barnsley on the other hand who went up with us that year, did actually build on their success and have spent most of the last 30 odd years in what is now the Championship.

Roll on the Ronnie Moore effect and once again back in the Championship and we did try to make a fist of it for 4 years and I remember Ronnie appealing to every paying supporter to bring a friend stating we need at least 6000 through the gate to break even. We also only got 1year of the TV money which apparently went to pay off debts, ie Boothy's wallet. No investment there then.

Our last tenure at this level is well known recent history, but I would suggest Evans had money plus a brand new stadium as an incentive but we all know how that finished up with the Redfern, Stubbs, Jackett fiascos. Not very inspiring considering we had enough applications for manager that would have stretched the length of the river Don. Allegedly.

I think I've made my point. Rotherham United will not draw new support from the stay away public until they are won over by action on the field and not just unrealistic platitudes from the Chairman. Why rush down to spend the hard earned when they know it wont last and end in tears.



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BradtheMiller
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TH MILLER, I would respectfully ask you to stop banging the SE, evo, Steve Evans drum as it will & should not EVER happen.
Clearout obviously needed, we need to get rid of both Balls, Manny, Bray, Vyner, Yates, Forde, Price, Palmer , Purrington & Potter. That's ELEVEN wages saved.
We need two decent quality keepers ( McKeown at Grimsby is a good shout), two right backs, a cover LB for Mattock, a quality defensive midfielder & two CM's ( Plymouth's Carey if we can get him?), Lamy is coming in hopefully so one more wide man, & for the love of god at least two strikers with third tier experience.

See, easy!!

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smiler
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Some good points made on this thread I think. Also plenty that I strongly disagree with, but that is to be expected.

To establish ourselves in The Championship we need better players. To get better players we need more money. And not just a little bit more - a lot more. Reportedly what we pay our players is around £15,000 a week less than the division average. That is around £800,000 a year per player. A massive gap to bridge.

There is a limit to the crowds that we will ever get. The club plays in a terrific setting and has delivered two Wembley wins and three promotions in recent years. We have struggled to establish ourselves in the Championship but barring one disastrous season have had a fair go at it, with quality opposition regularly visiting. Yet we have still struggled to get our fan base past a hard core of around 8,000 tops. Rough and ready, an extra 2,000 on the gate every week might pay for one average quality Championship player in a season.

Selling players for big money, if we can ever do it, would give us some working capital in the short term, but is no guarantee of longer term prosperity. It didn't help Barnsley establish themselves.

A rich benefactor can help if you want to take a massive risk, but FFP means that this is a very high risk strategy and potentially catastrophic if it goes wrong.

I get the argument that speculating a bit might have kept us up and secured extra TV revenue next season, but that wouldn't have strengthened us relative to our rivals because they will get the same extra money. It wouldn't have changed our fundamental financial base, which simply isn't Championship material.

I think in the end I am with Exeter Miller. The apparent lack of progress developing the site is worrying and I am sure it has held us back massively. Without that extra revenue we are probably a top half, potentially top six League One club who will always struggle when we occasionally make it up to The Championship. In modern day football money is key, whether you like it or not.






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gwru
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Evans history as I've said. Just think under Warney will this squad get the major overall it needs?

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wotsisname
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Not just an overall but a clean sweep is required.



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C
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Fair sized job again for Warne this summer.

Can see Newell, Williams, Vaulks, Ajayi all moving on plus you’ve got Rodak returning to Fulham and Towell to Brighton.

We need a nippy striker or a number ten to play off Smith and to replace all those mentioned above. Agree that we now need a permanent keeper and Mattock should be offered fresh terms, he’s played well this season.

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gwru
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Can you honestly see Warney making wholesale changes to the squad? That's what's needed. He worried me when he said he's considering offering Potter a new contract. Look at our wingers all got on Monday not one of them look good enough. What's happened to Williams? Has he had his head turned, he didn't look the same player we saw earlier this season. Forde & Taylor never been wingers while they've been here, that's not going to change. Newell looks washed up to me, no future here.

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