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Millers Banter: Unofficial Rotherham United Fans Forum / Message Board → Football / Sport / RUFC Related → WARNEY TO QPR
 

Topic: WARNEY TO QPR

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wotsisname
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WARNEY TO QPR
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We need a manager like Lee Bowyer to get the best out of our players? Not sure that will happen.
O/T A punter would need to be really lucky to pick the winner of the Grand National when choosing only two selections in that lottery of a race.
There's nothing to stop a horse from winning the race when hitting form at this time and carrying 11 stones or more. I'm sure the going is going to sort out the winner and also rans.

Simeon

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whiston01
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We need Lee Bowyer like we need a hole in the head. This is a man who fought on the field with his team mate Keiron Dyer whilst at Newcastle. This is a man who has a history of violence and admitted to affray after head butting somebody outside a McDonalds restaurant. He was also one of the infamous three who got into bother when a man was seriously attacked. Woodgate got 100hours community service and Neale Caveney (non footballer) got six years in prison. Bowyer was found not guilty. His main defence was that he wasn't at the incident as he had been in a previous fight and was left dazed by it and was not involved. Its well known in football circles that Bowyer is a piece of work. His manners and attitude at England training camps fell well below what was expected of an England footballer. Whoever takes him are welcome to him. Warne is 100 times a better man and manager than he could ever be.

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wotsisname
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I'll take that as a 'no' to Bowyer.

O/T It's the first day of the Aintree Festival today. Not much looks the business even though Woody has a turn of foot.



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gwru
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A big fat no to Bowyer. I wouldn't want Paul Hurst either, he's had his chance he's failed.

Got my 3 for the National if anyone is interested. Contrary to opinion National now you have more chance of finding the winner than say a big handicap on the flat when the season gets going. But in the National you've got to go for more the one in a 40 runner race. Watching the racing today, looks good racing to me. Not big fields in the featured races but tricky.

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wotsisname
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Not even Paul Hirst?

O/T I'll just be choosing one for the National. There have been many talking horses but by far the best was Mr Ed. He was a great raconteur but never a racing pundit.

Simsi

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wotsisname
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wotsisname wrote:

I'll take that as a 'no' to Bowyer.

O/T It's the first day of the Aintree Festival today. Not much looks the business even though Woody has a turn of foot.

 O/T Top Wood, or 'Woody' has done well today in the 4.05 at Aintree. A 14/1 winner. An exciting finish and brilliantly ridden by jockey, Tabatha Worsley.

Simmo 



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TH MILLER
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Onto Saturday Robertson and Mattock looking very doubtful looks to me as though the wheels are faĺling of the cart if them 2 are missing or are not 100% fit they are 2 big cogs out if we get a point out of these next 3 games you can hit me with a wet lettuce. Looking forward to next season ìn division1.

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wotsisname
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Stop the bus! I'm sure Friday comes before Saturday.
O/T Second day of the Aintree Festival. I may just pass on choosing a winner. I wonder if anyone is able to share a tip or two for tomorrow?

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gwru
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Warney says Robertson is fit. Mattock he's got some illness. Tipping both will play. Vyner more doubtful than them.

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wotsisname
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O/T I'm going to tip an unusually named runner in the Grand National.

Remind me. Who are we playing on Saturday? We've had a lot of talk around QPR, Warney, Bowyer et al. Shouldn't there be a new thread? It might just stop me obsessing about the Grand National. I've got enough on my plate with chess. 😂 

Simmo



-- Edited by wotsisname on Thursday 4th of April 2019 07:22:13 PM

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ian
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No smiler I don't think we can all agree that a good manager managers a relegated team. That would be one of them attempts to convince me with your charms by making an assumption and presenting it as fact

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ian
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And I am not saying he is or isn't a good manager. Another assumption.

I am saying that QPR would have to do some mental acrobatics to take a manager with no pedigree and no substantial experience and convince themselves it's a great piece of business

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smiler
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Charms? I don't think so. I wasn't particularly posting in response to yours Ian - there has been a lot of posting on this and other sites about 'heads rolling' and questioning Warne's future. And I didn't expect everyone to agree with me. I'll put it differently in the form of straightforward opinions. Some supporters seem to think that a relegated team or even relegation-threatened team has to sack a manager. To my mind, the idea that relegation = poor job is far too linear, way over-simplistic and patently nonsensical. Wherever we finish, Warne has done an excellent job. Just as Warnock has done a great job at Cardiff this season even if they go down (or is he now a bad manager?). Furthermore, Warne will have learned a lot this season that will stand him in good stead for the future. Unless he is poached by a club that values him more than we do or can pay him far more than we can, we should keep Warne whichever division we are in. I suspect there are plenty of clubs bigger than us who would give him an opportunity, and I fear that wherever we finish, he might leave over the summer.

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ian
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yes, well, I agree with the first point but strangely not your second although it seems to effortlessly meander from the first.

I think there is such a strong set of correlations between a manager that has a team for well over a season and then being relegated. Now, this does not mean he is an absolutely bad manager, but it does mean he has failed to meet the target. Indeed such a situation seems to have no observable benefit. It is a results situation through and through. Bad results do not cause anything positive to occur in the long run.

my summery is that relegation under such cir***stances is a failure of the manager to make the right decisions.

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smiler
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With the greatest respect Ian I really couldn't disagree more. You can't judge a man a failure because he couldn't perform a miracle. Or maybe you can. Warnock out!

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gwru
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Sooner talk about the national. Something that's going to happen. Watched that foxhunters race over the national fences yesterday. Two things struck me. On the mildmay course horses were struggling to get home on that ground. Seem to get home ok on the national course. Also those fences don't seem nowhere near as fearsome as years ago. Just size of the national field cause more problems. Unless it's a freak year need a horse with the speed to win it in at the right weight. That's the hard part to find that horse.

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TH MILLER
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Best of luck to Warney if he takes QPR job but its a bit of a poisoned chalice not be working with a chairman like Tony Stewart and the support he has had from everybody including us supporters I think they could be taking Ipswich place next season. Scratchng my head for a replacement only ones I can think of are Paul Hurst or those 2 brothers at Lincoln.
As for the National I won't watch a sport that kills animals I don't call that fun.

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Exetermiller
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smiler wrote:

Can we all agree that it is possible that a manager can be a very good manager and do a very good job, but still have his side relegated? All this 'its a results business' and 'heads must roll' stuff trips off the tongue easily but it is pure *******s. The most any many manager can do is get the absolute best out of the resources at his disposal, and given the time to work that so many managers are denied these days sometimes he might have to take one step backwards to take two forwards. There isn't anything even a little bit unusual or surprising about the idea that other clubs might covet Warne. We should do all in our power to keep him and think long term instead of going back to square one and re-booting for the umpteenth time.

 Totally agree...look at Maclaren...continues to do bab wherever he goes whatever resources he has...some would say hes an excellent coach!!!! - although I know what you mean - but how long can this guy live off his name!?  Be interesting to see what Warney could do with a more level playing field budget, resources and club size.



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ian
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smiler wrote:

With the greatest respect Ian I really couldn't disagree more. You can't judge a man a failure because he couldn't perform a miracle. Or maybe you can. Warnock out!

 I think thats a broad brush answer. You are also putting assumptions before facts again. I dont think a miracle is needed to keep RUFC up. If you cite that as the foundation then you dont have an argument. 

 

It struck me as even more absurd than the first time around linking warne with QPR. It turned ito a circus when warne declared he was chuffed to be linked with the job as it showed that others had taken notice of how great he has done.

so, lets look at this again with facts.

 

He has performed worse than both Ronnie and Evans.

He has hardly recruited (probably the worst in any season I can remember)

He has signed players with known significant injuries on long contracts.

He has not addressed any of the outstanding issues in the teams results. 

He has had 2.5 years to get things to the present standard and in my opinion, there is no evidence at all of any on the field improvement-None.

Next season currently looks difficult. either relegated or not there is not enough in the current squad to build upon (this is straying a little into opinion but based on current results and projected)

The fact we are in the bottom 3 with 7 games to go can in no way be thought of as successful no matter what disabilities one might suggest RUFC have. If a competitor in any sport or business does not make the grade then one does not suggest excuses but reasons. You cite a miracle but that is not a reason. Lack of money is not a reason. Being in the North of England is not a reason. Having crowds below 10k is not a reason. They are facts. They arent excuses. If they are excuses to reason with then the argument suggests we have nothing at all to digest, no improvement to be made, and no reason to try or to hope. It is a nihilistic hollow suggestion. And that would conclude PW has not been either successful or relatively successful. It supports the idea he has been thus far unsuccessful. 

 

 

 

 



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smiler
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ian wrote:
smiler wrote:

With the greatest respect Ian I really couldn't disagree more. You can't judge a man a failure because he couldn't perform a miracle. Or maybe you can. Warnock out!

 I think thats a broad brush answer. You are also putting assumptions before facts again. I dont think a miracle is needed to keep RUFC up. If you cite that as the foundation then you dont have an argument. 

 

It struck me as even more absurd than the first time around linking warne with QPR. It turned ito a circus when warne declared he was chuffed to be linked with the job as it showed that others had taken notice of how great he has done.

so, lets look at this again with facts.

 

He has performed worse than both Ronnie and Evans.

He has hardly recruited (probably the worst in any season I can remember)

He has signed players with known significant injuries on long contracts.

He has not addressed any of the outstanding issues in the teams results. 

He has had 2.5 years to get things to the present standard and in my opinion, there is no evidence at all of any on the field improvement-None.

Next season currently looks difficult. either relegated or not there is not enough in the current squad to build upon (this is straying a little into opinion but based on current results and projected)

The fact we are in the bottom 3 with 7 games to go can in no way be thought of as successful no matter what disabilities one might suggest RUFC have. If a competitor in any sport or business does not make the grade then one does not suggest excuses but reasons. You cite a miracle but that is not a reason. Lack of money is not a reason. Being in the North of England is not a reason. Having crowds below 10k is not a reason. They are facts. They arent excuses. If they are excuses to reason with then the argument suggests we have nothing at all to digest, no improvement to be made, and no reason to try or to hope. It is a nihilistic hollow suggestion. And that would conclude PW has not been either successful or relatively successful. It supports the idea he has been thus far unsuccessful. 

 

 

 

 

 There are very few facts in there.  It is almost entirely opinion, and again respectfully I again disagree with most of it.

I am 51 and overweight.  Put me in a race with a group with seven fit 20 year old athletes and I would probably come last.  Put me in the hands of a professional coach and I would probably still come last.  Would that mean the coach had done a bad job?  If some third party had decided to impose a target of sixth out of eight, would the coach really be a failure if I came seventh despite best efforts?  I would say not.  I would say the target was unrealistic.

Applying that same logic to the matter at hand, if a manager is getting the best results that could reasonably be expected with the resources at his disposal, that is surely a job well done even if those results aren't particularly good.

I know it is opinion again, but I can't believe that you really think we aren't in better shape than when Warne took over. I think we are miles better.  The season when he took over we were dead before Christmas and frankly embarrassing.  This season we are in there with a chance and I am proud of the club and the team again.  

You and I seem to see things very differently Ian.  No harm in that though.  I have a lot of time for your contributions on here.

 

 

 



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