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Topic: WBA thoughts

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smiler
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WBA thoughts

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Defenders who on the open market can command thirty thousand pounds a week tend not to make as many mistakes as defenders on five thousand pounds a week. Strikers on forty thousand pounds week and who command transfer fees of tens of millions tend to be better finishers than strikers who cost tens of thousands. So it is that WBA will beat us far more often than we beat them. We may win these contests occasionally with a combination of hard work, good preparation and a sprinkling of luck. We all went today hoping that the Swansea win might be replicated, but it wasn't one of those days. Instead it was a day when - despite our best efforts - what should happen more often than not did happen. They beat us. We need to get over it and move on quickly.



-- Edited by smiler on Saturday 22nd of December 2018 11:51:20 PM



-- Edited by smiler on Saturday 22nd of December 2018 11:53:40 PM

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whiston01
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There's not a lot to add to Ian's masterpiece and i would doubt there is a better post on any forum website in the country.
West Brom decided to play 4.3.3 and take the game to us. They played 4.4.2 at Bramall Lane and it took them 30 minutes to get into it. With us they pushed our wide men deep,controlled midfield and ran the game. They scored early when our wall didn't do its job. We then created from a set piece when Manning hit the post and Ajayi couldn't take the follow up. Two other goals followed in the first half and it was game up for us. West Brom took their chances whereas Reading didn't a week earlier.
The midfield just couldn't get on the ball and the space Barry and Phillips found in the middle was alarming. They had pace in attack and a strong defence which was allowed to bring the ball put without much pressure. I agree with ian when he says Manning not quite good enough and at times i feel Towell is similar. Newell could have been taken off at half time as he was never really in it apart from one run. Smith ran about and tried but we are not creating from open play. The one ray of hope was Williams who did look like he could cause problems and got us the penalty.
Our stay in the championship will not be decided by results against West Brom but with the likes we face on Boxing Day. What system/style Warney plays i will leave it to him. Have we got the players to go out more positive and take the game to Bolton ? Again i am not sure. I also believe Paul Warne is not sure he has the talent at his disposal to do it either. A draw anybody !!

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Archie
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Maybe I see a different game Whiston?

I thought Newell did fine and was growing into the game when subbed. I personally would have moved him into the middle of the park as he was by no-means the poorest Miller on show yesterday, albeit against a very good outfit.

 

I also thought it was Towell who won the penalty



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gwru
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whiston01 got to start with Newell while January unless we play Manning there. Taylor came on it was painful to watch, his cross from the left was so weak it didn't clear the their 1st line of defence. Towell looks desperate. He's either hitting shot's that don't trouble the goalkeeper or are way off target. But who else have we got while January. Hope Mattock isn't injured or that will throw a spanner into the works. Forgive Rodak, weren't going to change the result. All defence didn't do much wrong. Forde Vaulks Newell Manning Smith were on par. Not under or over par. Williams looked lively when he came on but it's either him or Forde on the right. Williams is not a midfield player or in the whole behind the striker. He definitely not a goalscorer. On to Bolton. If they are all fit I'd start with the same side apart from either Forde or Williams.

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TH MILLER
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Watching the last few matches you can see teams have sussed us out and we haven't got the quality to over come it I January we need to address this situation thats the one good thing that might come of the WBA debacle is the need to bring some quality in or else back to division 1. I think I will spend boxing day afternoon hiding behind the sofa then better still going out for a few shandies.

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whiston01
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Towell was the man brought down Archie you are correct but surely it was the defence splitting ball from Williams that created the opportunity.. As for Newell, i think its a case of i know he can do better and he just seems to drift about instead of putting his stamp on the game. All about opinions and good to hear yours.

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Davidedin
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Firstly... beaten by best side we've seen at NYS this season in my opinion... my only complaint was that at 1-0 down Warne didn't change. Plan A was out of the window then , so in my opinion Proctor should have been on before their second.. and as Smiler says in his post, Procter must be wondering why he's not getting more game time. We probably would have still lost but we needed that second striker after they scored to give us a fighting chance... so that was disappointing for me...

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gwru
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Sooner have seen Proctor than Taylor but he's not the answer. Keep with the side we started with at Bolton. Keep the faith. UTM

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derbymiller
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firstly they are a quality team with quality players, secondly conceding such an early goal hurt us and it meant the game plan went out of the window.

We had plenty of chances but we lack quality up front Smith chases everything, but his anticipation and positioning in the pen box is quite poor, he also doesn't time the runs towards the ball to get power on his headers, he is a league 1 striker that is playing to his best in a league above his abilities, cannot doubt his effort though.

My complaints are the same as normal, we have one system, try to stay in the game until the last 20 mins and then put on new wide players to get a goal. Once we are two down that goes out and we lack other tactical ideas. Proctor not coming on is bizarre, anyway the next few games are more important and we need to be a lot bolder and try to win the game rather than not lose.

Hopefully we will not lose key players and we can keep just out of that bottom 3 



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gwru
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All these wanting Proctor playing or brought on early how would you change it. 3 in midfield has made us more solid there. Bolton are no WBA but are at home so we need bodies in the engine room. If all fit same keeper/defence Williams Forde Vaulks Manning Newell; Smudger

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whiston01
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Its a very difficult decision gwru. I think Towell is struggling but i would select him before Forde and Manning in the middle three if thats what we are going with. We were poor in the middle of the park on Saturday and although i prefer Ajayi at centre back it might be the time to play him in the midfield. Warne knows we are weak on the wide left thats why he has tried Newell, Taylor, Williams, Manning and Vassell there. What formation,personnel he puts in the middle i dont know, but Towell and Manning are on loan and doing o.k at times but the jury is out as to whether they are championship players, so is it a time to get Wiles in. I don't think he will because he is not taking any chances anywhere. I expect a 4.5.1 set up with just the odd change in wide positions. I also expect a draw.

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gwru
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whiston01agree Towell he's got to come good soon, though can't wait forever. Got to play 4-5-1. Same starting 11 as Saturday apart from if Warney wants to take the game to Bolton Williams in for Forde

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ian
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The criticism is creeping in and its beginning to become general. I think its fair at present. There are several odd things happening and it reflects the manager's mindset.

Waiting till well into the second half at 4-0 down and then bringing Williams on is odd. I dont know what it means. My initial reaction was to think it was a decision made in panic well after he had lost the sense of the game. I felt bringing Williams on could have resulted in a very embarrassing scoreline. 4-0 bad enough, but more might be crushing. I dont see anything helpful to it. certainly not for williams. Then warne drip-feeds others into the fray. Of course one could just say Warne was now going through the motions and doing what one does to rotate the squad. However, in search for that goal we were often without a central defence and several times had to rely on last-minute defensive speed and posture of Ajayi. It could have been much worse even though WBA had sat back.

Warne says there is no Business in the pipeline but they are still looking. That does not sound like a club able to do anything more than it has already.

Season so far.

I was amazed and full of praise for warne and co and their very gradually and creative way they went about business last season and at the beginning of this. They did it with no help from above and have made a team out of non-championship players and improved them individually and collectively. Now we are in the fray-the middle of the fight. We are looking around and not able to see anything bar our own individual battles. we are desperate for someone on the hill to get a message to the troops. Are there any reinforcements coming? Did warne and co leave a special tactical unit on the left flank for such an eventuality?

It seems at the moment he may have had to be so focused on this first part of the battle that he has committed everything all at once.

Its going to be bloody and hand to hand-the last stand.

The call for a second striker is growing
The suspicion (which I have not shared) that PW has lost his perspective via special relationships.
The growing forced smiles in his interviews
The new boy pose has become frayed
The rat-a-tat of his roaming and entertaining monologues has faded.

In the beginning:
He felt panicked and anxious when he took over.
He was chewing his own face
he couldn't sleep
he lost weight
he felt guilty

Now I think he has to take some council and some space and have a 360.
The honeymoon is over
He is now in make or break land this season and perhaps his career as a manager.

The momentum has stalled for the first time.

Its going to take a very purposed, concentrated, and trusting disposition now. I hope Warne can really open up to others and take support. His passion is legendary, His ability to bend his neck to listen has always been in doubt. He is a new manager. He needs to be cautious and brave.

A tough gig.

 

p.s.

 

Thank you, Whiston. That is extremely kind and thoughtful of you.

 

 

 



-- Edited by ian on Monday 24th of December 2018 12:58:45 PM

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hillsborough miller
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My thoughts are this 3 nil down most managers would have gone 2 up front nothing to lose Warne won't use that although he did v reading which changed the game 2nd half I do think his sending.players on Loan what ever reason either to give them playing time.or Tony wanted them off the wage bill But his quandary is this as ball and Yates on Loan and vassell.injured we only have 2 fit strikers. Mattock injured no perm cover only mannk g on Loan who I heard is been recalled Warne needs to be buying in Jan. After all.we didn't buy anyone in summer

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gwru
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Problem is we can't play 2 up front to start a game. We need 3 in midfield to compete at this level. Also players we sent out on loan apart from Dom Ball aren't up to this level. Ihiewke couldn't handle it in the league 1 play-offs, no chance in the championship. I'd have Dom Ball back on Jan' 1st he's our player. We have no cover at centre back at the moment. Raggett if he's not back from injury by Jan 1st send him back to his parent club, we carrying enough lame ducks now in Jones & Potter. Wood he's been a good servant but if he wants to carry on playing needs to step down a league at least. Taylor & Palmer can go in Jan'. Need a midfieler & Left winger to start with who can come straight into the starting 11.

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ian
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Yes, ball does indeed have to return. It would seem incomprehensible to leave a player who offers something to our threadbare squad.

I think we might be stuck k in this fear and caution mentality. Unwittingly aided by the fantastic work the team and PW have done. I think they started to think the draws would just turn into wins. And, changing it to a perfectly acceptable and recognisable 442 has become mentally phobic.

More risk please boys

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smiler
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There is more chance of me getting a game than Ball (who has started very few games for Aberdeen) playing for us again. As for taking risks, signs of pressure and so on, I think the way we have approached games has been very consistent this season. We have played worse than we did against WBA and won games. In fact we made plenty of chances in the game. I don't get any sense of panic or change in Warne's demeanor. Over a season you get ups and downs. I think we are probably still just ahead of par measured against reasonable expectations. My thoughts are that we need to carry on doing what we have been doing, keep working hard and keep trying to improve. I had hoped that the supporters would (understanding the size of the task and the effort that is going in) stick with the team this season but the number of people who left after an hour against WBA was a concern. Yes, you pay your money and take your choice and yes its their right to do what the want, but that was the very opposite of support. Basically a fair number exercised their right to not support the team.

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Exetermiller
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For me the reality of West Brom was we play 5 in midfield to try and get some control of games. Prob is when 4 out of those 5 the game passes them by that's what happens, from a combo of how class West Brom were but also too much respect from us. At millmoor we had players to terrify these big time charlies due to their brutality, we don't have that, we're too nice. But as said before our season won't be defined with this. It does worry me though that when 4 of the 5 (not including Newell he actually did ok for me), seems Warney is reluctant to change the pack. I wanted Williams at half time just to stop the pedestrian energy off the ball and predictability on it.

I don't see us that often but I think we're starting to look tired, we just didn't press West Brom like I've seen us do.

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gwru
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smiler we have only Ajayi & Robertson centre backs fit & good enough for this level. Warney says Raggett needs a reserve game before he can be considered for the 1st team. Jan 1st we can bring our loan players back. No point bringing them back if like Ihiekwe they aren't good enough for the championship. Dom Ball I'd definitely bring back, he's up to this level. We need some bodies good enough at centre back.

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Crookadile
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gwru you keep saying Dom Ball is up to Championship level. He can't even get a regular place in the Scottish joke league playing against pub teams.

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