At least we've got an interesting o/t thread going which hopefully won't descend into the sort of polarised, abusive name calling tripe you see on other boards. Just to be clear, I am no fan of the EU and I am no fan of our government institutions. The capitalists who really run the country (and other countries) have not suffered any of the austerity that has been chosen (and it was a policy choice) as a response to their failings. I am all for a bit of disruption and change. But the right changes (whatever they are) and more importantly for the right reasons. Scapegoating the vulnerable isn't going to help anyone. Never has and never will. Its just a diversion from the real issues of the day.
Many in the government are now as vulnerable as any game bird in a turkey shoot. They are so out of touch even they don't know it just yet. It's time to call time on the faceless capitalists who run the turkey shoot. Remember Margaret Thatcher? She held the notion that she was the darling of the Establishment. Total nonsense. She was hung out to dry after she had aided and abetted the axing of the coal and steel industries. Shameful. Yet people still vote for the Tories because no other party and I mean no other political party currently acts in the best interests of the people of the United Kingdom. All political parties are in disarray because the Nation voted to leave the EU. They are clearly not peeing in the same pots because of their own individual self interests. There comes a tipping point when the Prime Minister should seek an audience with Her Majesty the Queen to ask for a pardon ( yes, a pardon ) and that the Queen should then be advised to appoint those fit and proper serving MPs from across the political spectrum who really believe in Brexit to serve as an interim government to negotiate a reasonable and legal withdrawal from the EU and thus restore the UK's independence in order to trade freely across the globe.
BTW, Smiler I agree with your sentiment ' Scapegoating the vulnerable isn't going to help anyone. Never has and never will. Its just a diversion from the real issues of the day'.
I'm going to have to wonder who the hell picked the fruit and served in fisheries and as hands on local farms before the freedom of movement.
Well, I lived on a farm for seven years late 80s. It all seemed to be fine then.
What on earth has happened.
The farmer was gifted his land by a government drive in the 70s and he along with dozens of farms took locals to drive, shepherd, pick, clean and maintain. I remember to this day the first time an immigrant wandered in to his land and asked for a job. He was very sympathetic as he told me. Ian, he said, he was a nice chap but I told him there is no work to be had anywhere round here. That was in 1996.
Something changed. Tell you what. Bet it was EU policy. Given the continued glut of milk and beef he had to sell his land for housing development in 2004. He was devestated. Dozens of locals lost jobs. I saw a whole community die. I very sad and heartbroken had to. Leave too. Now, that farm and its beauty is box houses. I then watched as farm after farm went the same way. It seemed crazy. But, each time I asked it was trade with the EU and Britain's week negotiators the traditional tory voters told me. Now, this sounds like a very well thought out plan to distribute Britain's wealth and influence. As someone pointed out. Even when Thatcher was slaughtering the North the EU were still producing coal and steel very happily.
So, whatever the figures for agricultural employment is currently I think it was politically driven Of that I do think I have form first hand evidence. That being the case we can rightly assume it's a deliberate attack on that economy. Wonder of wonders someone was there to kindly notice the gap that only the even more poor could fill as communities had already been destroyed and probably moved on. If what I say is somewhat true we have been looking at the deliberate run down of communities in the North and a focused effort to repopulate with outside work force.
I am absolutely sure that was in every high level meeting across Europe. The frence and Germans have a history of just such moves and Britain allowed that psycho thatcher ... To painful really.
That's the heart that's under the decision. Remain voters believe in something far happier because they are happy. That is fine, but the denial of a voice of your neighbour and half the country who said NO is beyond contempt.
You know, the decision is done. What everyone should be doing is asking the government to implement, all members of Parliament should support it and we have a cross party look at why the North is so much worse off than most of the south. If remainders don't support that then I'm only left with the idea they hate the North, the working class,, and shock of shocks have only been exploiting us. That's the truth ain't it. This is a class division and the powerful class don't want it. Someone be brave and admit that might just be a motivation.
As for public services there has never been a time when it's been fully resourced. Trust me, its no worse off today or will be in 5 years. I'm afraid that's scaremongering. I've heard it several times. Never seen it. Normal fluctuations occur. That's it. Also, none of the professionals I know are leaving and wevskreast recruit from the commonwealth. You can probably rest easy in that one.
It makes me so sad. It was a vote. Everyone pretty much accepted it. Then all the shameful stuff happens when you don't get what you expected. I'm convinced it's that simple. But, that weakness is in our every strata of society.
-- Edited by ian on Monday 31st of December 2018 01:31:15 AM
Rarely are there simple answers to what seem to be simple questions. Who picked fruit before the EU came into play? In the distant past women and children often did as slave labourers. Then for decades 'gangmasters' supplied cheap and often forced labourers whilst creaming a profit for themselves. Post 1945 the government was forced to introduce SAWS - a permit scheme that allowed mainly eastern Europeans in need of work to work here temporarily - to fill the void caused by a shortage of manpower. The SAWS scheme was only abandoned quite recently because EU freedom of movement rendered it unnecessary. It is that sort of scheme that industry leaders are clamouring for the reintroduction of now. No doubt that labour laws were tightened to avoid the exploitation of vulnerable workers previously paid a pittance who often worked in desperate conditions. If the EU had anything to do with that, then God bless them. No doubt the urbanisation of society generally has resulted in the natural pool of available local rural workers shrinking over time. One thing is for sure, the view that in the good old days farmers were benevolent, paternalistic employers is rose tinted in the extreme. The idea that the situation has somehow been driven by EU policy or some deep state conspiracy might suit a certain narrative but it just isn't so. Fruit picking is and always has been crappy low paid work and only the most desperate have ever been willing to do it, often under duress.
Savid Javid, Tory Home Secretary has now come to the rescue of those hapless would be asylum seekers who have set sail in dinghies from French shores hoping to make their way to the Promised Land, England, the Land of Milk and Money. He has ordered two Cutter vessels to return from the Mediterranean Sea to begin patrolling the English Channel and aid the UK Border Force.
Yes, he is trying to stop tens of 'migrants' from coming to any harm. Tens of migrants. Not hundreds or even thousands. Tens of migrants
According to current unofficial figures there are approximately one and a half million illegal immigrants living in the UK. How did that huge number of individuals escape the notice of Border Force officials on the watch of successive Tory and Labour Governments? I'll bet over the years the English Channel was flooded with thousands of dinghies, canoes and even inflatables carrying would be asylum seekers on the ocean waves. How many of those craft came to grief? It appears many actually made land. No shortage of labour there then to help the UK economy?
And my point? Yet another distraction as another MP jockeys for the Prime Minister's job.
Tory Government's Finance Bill in relation to Brexit voted down tonight in Parliament. Thus it makes it more difficult for Theresa May to press for a No Deal Brexit. It's taken a while for Mrs May to realise that there is no appetite for such. What will happen next if Mrs May's deal with the EU is also voted down next week, Tuesday, 15th January 2019, by MP's? Make a note in your diaries.
Brexit or No Brexit? Many political commentators are predicting a crushing defeat for Mrs May's UK/EU deal. Will that actually happen tonight? We need to remember that many Labour MPs are unhappy with Mr Corbyn as the leader of their party. Mr Corbyn as Prime Minister? That doesn't resonate with many people across the UK. As for the many Tory MPs who are predicted to vote down May's deal? Will they really risk another General Election in order to lose their seats? Mrs May is a tough cookie. Mrs May can be one difficult woman. She might even pull something spectacular out of her handbag to deny Mr Corbyn's futile attempts to obtain the keys to Number 10.
Mrs May is a disgrace. Its a bit late now to start talking to people and looking for a consensus. I am struggling to find a politician who is emerging from this fiasco with any real credit. Even in a time of crisis they can't help putting party internal party politics before the good of the nation. Behind all the chatter we are drifting towards oblivion. Never mind, all those international trade deals that Dr Fox has signed might come to the rescue. Oh, hang on....
Mrs May never really wanted to leave the EU. Nor did Mr Corbyn. Most of those inside the Westminster bubble don't like the thought of leaving the EU. They are continually kicking the EU can down the road hoping that the electorate forgets the result of the 2016 EU Referendum. Nigel Farage says he will start a new political party to run in EU elections if Article 50 is extended as he warns Remainer MPs are plotting to overturn Brexit.
It comes as Tory MP Nick Boles revealed he is working with Labour backbencher Yvette Cooper on a new proposed law to delay Brexit for nine months.
Think the problem is that Corbin wants to leave the EU and his MPs and Party members dont, whilst May wants to remain but her party wants out. Its a total mess and can only end in the Peoples Vote that no party can be blamed for, i.e. one that parliament pushes through. No Deal, May's Deal or Remain.
WHY IS NOBODY TALKING ABOUT THE LISBON TREATY, THE TREATY THAT COMES INTO FORCE IN 2020? IT'S WORSE THAN THE SO CALLED DEAL MRS MAY HAS BEEN TRYING TO PUSH THROUGH PARLIAMENT. IF 99% OF THE BRITISH PEOPLE THINK HER DEAL IS BAD JUST LOOK AT THE LISBON TREATY. PEOPLE NEED TO KNOW, LEAVERS AND REMAINERS..“What will actually happen if we stay in the EU?” is a question no Remainer will ever answer but here it is warts and all.
1: The UK along with all existing members of the EU lose their abstention veto in 2020 as laid down in the Lisbon Treaty when the system changes to that of majority acceptance with no abstentions or veto’s being allowed.
2: All member nations will become states of the new federal nation of the EU by 2022 as clearly laid out in the Lisbon Treaty with no exceptions or veto’s.
3: All member states must adopt the Euro by 2022 and any new member state must do so within 2 years of joining the EU as laid down in the Lisbon Treaty.
4: The London stock exchange will move to Frankfurt in 2020 and be integrated into the EU stock exchange resulting in a loss of 200,000 plus jobs in the UK because of the relocation. (This has already been pre-agreed and is only on a holding pattern due to the Brexit negotiations, which if Brexit does happen, the move is fully cancelled - but if not and the UK remains a member it’s full steam ahead for the move.)
5: The EU Parliament and ECJ become supreme over all legislative bodies of the UK.
6: The UK will adopt 100% of whatever the EU Parliament and ECJ lays down without any means of abstention or veto, negating the need for the UK to have the Lords or even the Commons as we know it today.
7: The UK will NOT be able to make its own trade deals.
8: The UK will NOT be able to set its own trade tariffs.
9 The UK will NOT be able to set its own trade quotas.
10: The UK loses control of its fishing rights
11: The UK loses control of its oil and gas rights
12: The UK loses control of its borders and enters the Schengen region by 2022 - as clearly laid down in the Lisbon treaty
13: The UK loses control of its planning legislation
14: The UK loses control of its armed forces including its nuclear deterrent
15: The UK loses full control of its taxation policy
16: The UK loses the ability to create its own laws and to implement them
17: The UK loses its standing in the Commonwealths
18: The UK loses control of any provinces or affiliated nations e.g.: Falklands, Cayman Islands, Gibraltar etc
19: The UK loses control of its judicial system
20: The UK loses control of its international policy
21: The UK loses full control of its national policy
22: The UK loses its right to call itself a nation in its own right.
23: The UK loses control of its space exploration program
24: The UK loses control of its Aviation and Sea lane jurisdiction
25: The UK loses its rebate in 2020 as laid down in the Lisbon treaty
26: The UK’s contribution to the EU is set to increase by an average of 1.2bn pa and by 2.3bn pa by 2020
This is the future that the youths of today think we stole from them?
They should be on their knees thanking us for saving them from being turned into Orwellian automatons, if we escape from control of the EU.
What part of the article is fake news? Remember, it's all a matter of opinion. The term 'fake news' doesn't hold water anymore. The current P of the USA uses it often when anyone calls him out. It's lost its potency. It's impotent. Why are Merkel and Macron now being pushed on to the backfoot in their respective countries? The Gilets Jaunes in France now have allies in Germany, Gelbe Westen(Yellow Vests). The Gelbe Westen were in Aachen yesterday with placards which read 'Orwellschafe', Orwell sheep. Opinion polls in France show that almost 75% of people do not want Macron to stay in power. Many people in Holland and Italy wish to leave the failing EU Project. As for Merkel. She is due to step down as German Chancellor and subsequently fill a post in Brussels. Nice little earner for one individual.
Meanwhile, back inside the Westminster bubble, there are those who wish to overturn the result of the 2016 EU Referendum. They want to block Brexit against the wishes of the majority of people who want to leave. As for another Referendum? I say bring it on. It's risible for the political classes to think that they still have their fingers on the pulses of the electorate. The game is up for them. Someone will eventually press the re-set button on how Central and moreover Local Government should operate in the best interests of the citizens of the UK. It won't happen just yet while many of the current crop of career politicians occupy the green leather benches inside the House of Commons.
I don't like the term 'fake news'. It never really meant anything. Properly it is 'made up news' but POTUS uses it to trash anything he doesn't like or that doesn't suit him. I prefer when people just say that something is wrong or inaccurate and then take the trouble to say why. This POTUS never really gives qualified opinion or answers difficult questions. Part of his undermining democracy is his lack of day to day accountability. Previous Presidents have regularly put themselves in front of the media. This one has usually sent a lackey in to lie or dodge questions for him, and now even she hardly ever appears. Trump generally only fields 'soft' questions from Fox, which has become the American TASS (there's a throwback).
Now that the two main political parties appear to be crumbling daily there has now emerged The Independent Group, The 'Tiggers'. Three Conservatives and eight Labour MPs who have resigned from their respective parties. Their main and one and only concrete policy? They are supporting a second referendum on Brexit. 'Good luck with that', say I.
Mrs May is currently meeting with other EU leaders, 25th Feb 2019, in the sand dunes in a far off desert place whose name sounds like Sham. No-one is quite sure if she has seen any mirages just yet. One thing is for sure, things are heating up. Meanwhile back home in the UK there is talk by some MPs of delaying Brexit for anything up to 21 months or indeed having no Brexit at all. No mirages involved just some folk being delusional. Bless!
All Police leave has been cancelled from the last week in March and the first week in April. The Police are already over stretched. There has also been a report that up to three thousand troops are going to be placed on standby in case of possible civil unrest. During the Miners' Strike 1984-85 free movement of people was restricted to prevent flying pickets being transported up and down the country.
Will that mean many sporting events will have to be cancelled in the event of a no deal Brexit or indded no Brexit at all?
We are away at Derby County on Saturday, 30th March, the day after Mrs May's planned exit from the EU. The following Saturday, 6th April we are at home to Notts Forest.
The newly elected Ukrainian President is a comedy actor, Zelenskiy. Mmmmmm. Wonder which comedian/actor could do the same in the UK? I reckon we're spoilt for choice. Some of those in Parliament are now beyond a joke. For one thing their acts are stale. They need some new material and PDQ.
