Mixed feelings after this game. As ever they couldn't be faulted for effort. We played well enough and made enough chances to get a point or more. Just lacking composure/quality when the chances to score came along. There were some decent performances and enough evidence to suggest that we can get results away from home. Overall though the game highlighted our dilemma. Warne is scared to set up in any other way than to defend deep and try to frustrate teams and try and break quickly (hence Williams and Taylor starting) , or hope for set piece goals. The problem is that there will be very few games where we can play like that and keep a clean sheet. Even Wigan - who aren't great - always looked they would score sooner or later. And we weren't clinical enough when we had good situations. So we end up with an honourable narrow defeat (as at Leeds) and no points, and a sense that we haven't really had a go until it was too late. He is really caught between the devil and the deep blue sea. Be more attack minded and risk a battering, and he is accused of being too open. Play it as he is and he is accused of being too negative. The problem of course is that most of the teams in this division have better players than us and that quality will usually make the difference. There is no magic answer to that. The reality is that we are therefore up against it, and to be fair this time round nobody has pretended otherwise, but we have a game group of players and there may be three worse teams than us. If we keep at it we may eke out enough points to stay up.
Superb assessment from Smiler with everything he says spot on. Defended too deep in the first half and never in it in the first half. Second half back four pushed up a bit further and gave us a bit more chance to play on the front foot. Vassell also added a bit more when he came on.
In another post i said we had to keep key players fit to have a chance of staying up. Warne has stated that it doesnt look good for Raggett. I hope that early assessment is wrong because i see Raggett as one of those key playeres. For several reasons. He is a big unit who is physically strong and wins a fair few of balls in the air in both boxes. Although lacking a yard of pace the strikers against him know they have been in a game. More important is he is one of two right footed centre backs. The other is Ajayi. Yesterday we brought on Robertson which gave us two left sided centre backs. Wood and Robertson did well but i would fear it becoming a regular partnership as it would look unbalanced and put more pressure on Vyner with Robertson having a wide player coming inside and attacking him on his weak side. The other option is to bring Ajayi back alongside either Wood or Robertson. That in my opinion is a worse option as the aggression in the centre of the park would have gone and would leave us with a midfield four or five who couldnt tackle a good dinner.. A dilemma for Warney and co but one i hoped he wouldnt have to deal with. Lets hope Raggetts injury is not as bad as first thought.
whiston01 a tip, on these sites don't crawl round no one. Be your own man.
Back to matters in hand. Wasn't there, had full commentary on radio de dah. When I saw the side selected knew we'd do * all with Taylor playing & Williams on the left. When we brought Vassell on we were more in the game. Warney has got to man up & as said on here drop the old pals act. Problem position is Right back, Vyver isn't good enough, Jones were is he? You haven't got to play the loans. Warney thinks if you don't play the loans the parent club that players from won't loan us any more players. Tough * if they aren't good enough they don't play. Ajayi is a Centre back who can fill in as an emergency in midfield. We needed a midfielder to sit in front of the back 4. He's brought Towell in, he'll have to do that. Time to pair Ajayi & Robertson up at Centre back. Proctor start him as the loan striker against Derby. Needs match sharpness but would give us more of a goal threat. Was a bad goal we gave away, both Vyner & Rodak could have done better. Like to see Hinds on the bench as our development player. 1st change at Left back.
Our best side: Rodak; Jones Ajayi Robertson Mattock; Williams Vaulks Towell Manning Vassell; Proctor
I'm with you Smiler/Whiston - PW needs to have a bit more courage. We've had enough games this season to realise where our strengths and weaknesses are; in terms of both players and tactics. There is no doubt that we look more threatening and we 'defend' better when we are offensive, as opposed to sitting back and letting teams come at us. It's a great shame about Raggett because Ajayi in midfield is key to our ability to break up attacks and play in a more composed manner. Of course, an alternative to Raggett is to play Vaulks at CB - he has played well there in the past. Proctor is not yet match fit and there's no need to consider dropping Smith who is a hard working and talented CF and he deserves some support as opposed to ploughing a lone furrow chasing long high balls. I'm afraid I shudder each time I see Taylor in the starting line up and see it always as a missed opportunity. It's one of the only elements of PW's management that I just don't understand.
By the way Whiston - gwru's strength is horse racing tips (apparently) - I'm sure you're sufficiently grown up to make your own assessment of when agreement with another poster is appropriate. As for crawling, most of us left that behind in the school playground!!
I'm with you Smiler/Whiston - PW needs to have a bit more courage. We've had enough games this season to realise where our strengths and weaknesses are; in terms of both players and tactics. There is no doubt that we look more threatening and we 'defend' better when we are offensive, as opposed to sitting back and letting teams come at us. It's a great shame about Raggett because Ajayi in midfield is key to our ability to break up attacks and play in a more composed manner. Of course, an alternative to Raggett is to play Vaulks at CB - he has played well there in the past. Proctor is not yet match fit and there's no need to consider dropping Smith who is a hard working and talented CF and he deserves some support as opposed to ploughing a lone furrow chasing long high balls. I'm afraid I shudder each time I see Taylor in the starting line up and see it always as a missed opportunity. It's one of the only elements of PW's management that I just don't understand.
By the way Whiston - gwru's strength is horse racing tips (apparently) - I'm sure you're sufficiently grown up to make your own assessment of when agreement with another poster is appropriate. As for crawling, most of us left that behind in the school playground!!
Crawling wrong word. Trying too hard to be one of the gang is what I mean.
Don't agree about Ajayi. He's not a midfield player, only the last resort. Don't play players out of position in the championship. you'll get found out.
-- Edited by T71 on Sunday 2nd of September 2018 12:09:00 PM
Never crawled around anybody in my life but know when somebody has got the assessment correct. I will add Glenn to the list as i believe he talks a lot of sense as well and when he states he believes Ajayi can break up attacks he is spot on as evidenced against Millwall and to a lesser extent yesterday.
T71 you believe Towell can do the job of sitting in front of the back four. From what we have seen of Towell this would be foreign to him as he likes to play a more offensive midfield role like he did for us last season. We have still to find out if he can do it it the Championship. Proctor is a fair way off being ready,but he is like a new signing and once match fit will play a part. Vyner is finding it tough but with Taylor in front of him its harsh to say he cannot hack it. Bristol City believe he has a big future. Just hope hes not learning on the job here to the detriment of us. As said many times before life in the championship can only be hard for us. I still believe we need to set up more like we did yesterday with a hard to beat set up than the one at Brentford . We havent the talent of most teams but these lads are putting a shift in to try and gain something out of games. They deserve support for that and i also believe the management also need some applause for making us harder to beat after only six games in.
whiston01 did you go yesterday? I didn't but watched extended highlights. Also spoken to some that went. Said it was a waist of money. My opinion if Towell can't play holding midfield which we needed a player for will have to play Vaulks there. I'm confident in my Roth U takes as I am horseracing. Both same put yourself in the best position to get the best results.
Yes i was at Wigan. Wasnt a waste of money in my opinion. If people think we are going to go away and take the game to the opposition i am afraid they are going to be disappointed. Ajayi is the best option for the holding midfield role at the moment. I totally agree we needed to sign one but we havent. It looks like he will be playing 4:1:4:1 most of the time. If you play Vaulks in the holding role it takes away his best attributes which are driving forward and getting into a position to score. My four in the middle would be Williams on the right,Vaulks and Towell in the middle with manning on the left. That leaves Newell as an impact player from the bench and possibly Proctor also. Taylor,Forde and Palmer could well struggle for game time.
Don't Bristol City long term see Vyner as a centre back. Maybe he'd be more comfortable there. But that leaves us without a right back because panic signing Jones may turn out to be a huge flop.
Can’t fault the effort and application but our set up was wrong. Not saying Wigan are a poor side but that was a game we could have easily taken a point from.
It may be just me but I’ve yet to see a game where I’ve come away thinking Jon Taylor played well today, he never gives the full back behind him any protection, doesn’t contribute many goals/assists and just seems generally lost. Why Kyle Vassell got dropped after a good showing against Millwall and a decent last 20 minutes at Everton I’m not sure and I think that change drastically altered our approach.
Positives were that Robertson looked more that comfortable again and should be cementing his place now.
Yes i was at Wigan. Wasnt a waste of money in my opinion. If people think we are going to go away and take the game to the opposition i am afraid they are going to be disappointed. Ajayi is the best option for the holding midfield role at the moment. I totally agree we needed to sign one but we havent. It looks like he will be playing 4:1:4:1 most of the time. If you play Vaulks in the holding role it takes away his best attributes which are driving forward and getting into a position to score. My four in the middle would be Williams on the right,Vaulks and Towell in the middle with manning on the left. That leaves Newell as an impact player from the bench and possibly Proctor also. Taylor,Forde and Palmer could well struggle for game time.
Good on you going to Wigan. I'll be watching the Villa away game on sky. I still don't agree about Ajayi in midfield. Got Towell now. Warney wanted him, sure he can adapt to do the holding midfield role. Agree Forde Taylor Da Ball are surplus. Palmer cover for midfield. Got two weeks to sort the best way forward for us. Got to sort right back out, is Jones fit? Centre backs 1st choice for me would be Ajayi & Robertson to match the pace we're going to get from these quicker, better sides we'll be facing starting rest of this month. Vassell on the left or Newell. Don't play players out of position. Forget what I'm hearing on MM Vaulks is the main driving force in that side.
