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Millers Banter: Unofficial Rotherham United Fans Forum / Message Board → Football / Sport / RUFC Related → JCH
 

Topic: JCH

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T71
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JCH
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Hope this site looks at the bigger picture more than MM. Like I treated on MM only way to describe how Johno was handled by Warney, pathetic. Unbelievable to let only striker we've got good enough to step up to the next level. All he needed was game time but he's gone to somewhere who'll play him. Watched him last night om MOTD against a better side than we've played all season, he was direct. Hit woodwork twice, even panel on there mentioned him. Warney's moral code & players are gentlemen it's ok at this level but next level up got to go more on ability. I'm not on a wind up. Thoughts, constructive.



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Calypso
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I'd say it doesn't necessarily matter how good you are, a good deal depends on your team mates, manager and personal attitude. I'm always reminded of Garry Birtles, at Forest back in the Cloughy days, scored goals for fun, went to Man U and was a complete flop. Time and place.

As far as JCH is concerned, I wish him well and hope he can resurrect his career. Scored yesterday but one swallow doesn't make a summer, but its a new start for him and hopefully the right move at the right time for his career.

As for us; he's gone, I'm glad, and the squad is doing ok without him.

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smiler
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We all know talented players who never make it. I went to school with a lad who could juggle a golf ball two hundred times at the age of ten, had the best left foot I have ever seen at the age of sixteen, but was as daft as a brush and just wanted to p about with his mates in the pub on a Saturday night and do a few nutmegs on the park for the pub team on a Sunday morning at the age of eighteen. The point is that ability of itself is not enough.

JCH undoubtedly has qualities but has played 150 league games now for several different managers. If you watched a DVD of his six best performances (like yesterdays) you would think you had a world beater on your hands. But to be a good professional you need to produce your best consistently and be willing to put a shift in even if you aren't having a good game. So far JCH hasn't managed to do that. For every good game there are three or four bad ones, and when it is a bad one he disappears. That gets labelled as laziness by some but I don't think he is lazy at all. It is more like a lack of football maturity.

It is all up to JCH really. He can do it if he wants to. But I wouldn't blame Warne, who is trying to rebuild a squad from the ashes of last season, for drawing the line under JCH and giving another manager (the seventh or eighth to have a go) the chance to get the best out of him. Our team spirit has helped us to turn the corner with a bunch of players who aren't the most talented but they generally give their best and work hard for each other, even on cold Tuesday nights in unglamorous surroundings, and that goes a long way.

I haven't seen any evidence to suggest that JCH will perform consistently well at League One level, let alone higher. I have seen evidence that there is a chance that he could be a good lower league striker if he really wanted to be one. At 23 he will get further opportunities but sooner or later he needs to take one of them. On his Wiki page he already has a long list of clubs for one so young.


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GlennMiller
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T71 wrote:

Hope this site looks at the bigger picture more than MM. Like I treated on MM only way to describe how Johno was handled by Warney, pathetic. Unbelievable to let only striker we've got good enough to step up to the next level. All he needed was game time but he's gone to somewhere who'll play him. Watched him last night om MOTD against a better side than we've played all season, he was direct. Hit woodwork twice, even panel on there mentioned him. Warney's moral code & players are gentlemen it's ok at this level but next level up got to go more on ability. I'm not on a wind up. Thoughts, constructive.

 Consider Warne's options;

  • put an inconsistent player into the team because there's a possibility that with game time he will come good eventually, but until then accept that he might compromise your effectiveness as a team and ruin your chance of achieving promotion to the level where said player might thrive, or  
  • put together a side of hard working individuals who have proved consistently that they are playing to the top of their ability, put together a run of 13 unbeaten and 6 wins on the trot, offering the club the chance at promotion to the next level, where some or many of the squad might thrive.

To my mind, it's a no brainer.

PS. T71 - if, as you claim, you are not on a wind up, refrain from calling the manager who has the most consistent recent record in English football pathetic. Otherwise, some might consider you're on a wind up!!



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T71
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GlennMiller wrote:
T71 wrote:

Hope this site looks at the bigger picture more than MM. Like I treated on MM only way to describe how Johno was handled by Warney, pathetic. Unbelievable to let only striker we've got good enough to step up to the next level. All he needed was game time but he's gone to somewhere who'll play him. Watched him last night om MOTD against a better side than we've played all season, he was direct. Hit woodwork twice, even panel on there mentioned him. Warney's moral code & players are gentlemen it's ok at this level but next level up got to go more on ability. I'm not on a wind up. Thoughts, constructive.

 Consider Warne's options;

  • put an inconsistent player into the team because there's a possibility that with game time he will come good eventually, but until then accept that he might compromise your effectiveness as a team and ruin your chance of achieving promotion to the level where said player might thrive, or  
  • put together a side of hard working individuals who have proved consistently that they are playing to the top of their ability, put together a run of 13 unbeaten and 6 wins on the trot, offering the club the chance at promotion to the next level, where some or many of the squad might thrive.

To my mind, it's a no brainer.

PS. T71 - if, as you claim, you are not on a wind up, refrain from calling the manager who has the most consistent recent record in English football pathetic. Otherwise, some might consider you're on a wind up!!

Didn't say Warney is pathetic, how he handled Johno was. To have him behind Yates in the pecking order was an insult. Another thing about Johno he's still our player, still could get something for him seeing he his under 24. JCH once he gets fit he'll be an asset could be up as high as the championship. He'll be the one who got away. What's point of Lavery being here, Yates still here with Johno gone. Can't work it out. Somebody tell me. 



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Exetermiller
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You have to remember on the field stuff is only what we see and ends up being 10% of their job. Their application in training, how they are with the group, community work etc all makes a big bulk of that rest 90%. The club only let us know what they want us to hear of that other 90% too.

Warney is no mug, he's an intelligent guy and adaptable to the group he's managing. What works at 1 club doesn't necessarily work somewhere else. Ask Stubbs and Scott that who had magical formulas? they refused to move from.

JCH has had more than enough opportunity in his contract with us, he is one of our longest serving players? - as crazy as that sounds. I agree an all firing JCH on his day is a real handful, but I can only remember twice in all his appearances where he's done that. Even us that still play footy for fun can claim we've had more good games than that statistically. There has to come a point where you hold your hands up and say - look we gave you the opportunity countless times. You didn't take it, why only JCH and the management (and as Smiler says several of them) will know why that is.

There is a big pool of players even a club our size can choose from and lure into the club, it is about time others were given opportunity who clearly want to make it in the world of professional football. I can only hope JCH has a fresh start, he is still young, but he certainly needs to evaluate his position and realise what he has at his feet - you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink and all that.

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Calypso
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Well if we were wrong about JCH so were Coventry, Peterborough, Oldham and the handful of clubs he's been out on loan to, non of whom saw enough to warrant keeping him for long and allegedly he was let go from Coventry because of attitude first time round. Lucky for him they're giving him another go.

(I hope we don't get this thread tagged on to all other debates as it was on MM when almost every thread was turned into a Stubbs postmortem)

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T71
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Calypso wrote:

Well if we were wrong about JCH so were Coventry, Peterborough, Oldham and the handful of clubs he's been out on loan to, non of whom saw enough to warrant keeping him for long and allegedly he was let go from Coventry because of attitude first time round. Lucky for him they're giving him another go.

(I hope we don't get this thread tagged on to all other debates as it was on MM when almost every thread was turned into a Stubbs postmortem)

You've got me mixed up with somebody else. I only elaborate about progressive players who are actually our players Vaulks JCH & Bailey-King. But won't keep going over old ground. See how it unfolds.  



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C
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Smith is three times the player JCH is, Having a half decent game or half an hour every ten like Clarke Harris turns in doesn't make you a good player. Be nice to get him off the books for good in the summer.

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Bornamiller
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Yeah Stubbs after losing to Newcastle after the best game ever seen at the NYS. He and Redfearn sacked both because they knew success in the championship cost money that TS was never going to pay for without astounding gate growth. PW was yes man to take us down with a bump. Remember guys - the quality can be measured by Wood clearing the ball for a corner without pressure.

This league is awful because all the good player are squad players in the championship. JCH WAS probably on a good contract and therefore NOT PW player.

IF we get in the championship then we'll see. YOYO team like Barnsley - but that's entertainment....but not necessarily "quality".



-- Edited by Bornamiller on Sunday 18th of February 2018 03:11:39 PM

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MillerBear
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Comparing last season to this, where Yates seemed to be our number 1 striker with JCH as back up you could see when Moore, proctor and now smith have come into the team this year the difference in quality strikers. JCH looked a million miles away from either of those three, in ability, desire and application. I for one always wanted JCH to succeed but it was not to be. I agree with the above posts, he had ample opportunity to make his mark here. Compare him to ball, he could not get into our team earlier this year, but PW always said he felt sorry for him as he trained really well every day but his chance never came earlier on. Then his chance did come and and you can see on the pitch how he pushes himself and for the team. JCH never applied himself like this..... JCH scores 9 goals in 71 appearances ball has 7 from 17 for us. I hope JCH goes on to be a 20 a season striker in league 2, he won’t make it at this level or the Championship. UTM

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MillerBear
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Comparing last season to this, where Yates seemed to be our number 1 striker with JCH as back up you could see when Moore, proctor and now smith have come into the team this year the difference in quality strikers. JCH looked a million miles away from either of those three, in ability, desire and application. I for one always wanted JCH to succeed but it was not to be. I agree with the above posts, he had ample opportunity to make his mark here. Compare him to ball, he could not get into our team earlier this year, but PW always said he felt sorry for him as he trained really well every day but his chance never came earlier on. Then his chance did come and and you can see on the pitch how he pushes himself and for the team. JCH never applied himself like this..... JCH scores 9 goals in 71 appearances ball has 7 from 17 for us. I hope JCH goes on to be a 20 a season striker in league 2, he won’t make it at this level or the Championship. UTM

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DKNY
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I was quite impressed with JCH on match of the day. Not for the goal or the hitting the woodwork, purely because he kept getting himself in the penalty area, a feature sadly lacking in his time with us. I think i've seen him in the box more on match of the day than i have at NYS. The lad has a lot af attributes that should make him good, power, pace and a cannonball shot, but for me he lacks the strikers instinct to get himself in positions to score tap ins. If only he had the same desire to get on the end of a cross as he did to get on the end of a tattooist needle. Disappointed that he never fulfilled his promise and wish him well in his future career, but we have better players here than him currently.

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Bornamiller
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He's gone because of his wages mainly and last year - managed by Warne who hadn't got a clue how to play tactics that might give us a chance of staying up then JCH hadn't a prayer. PW even played Wood who was woeful. Wood has done well out of our relegation getting two new contracts despite him being the centre of our championship demise. We have come down to his level though and even then - the "milk turning faster than Wood" joke still applies.

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MillerBear
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JCH was not on big money, where did you pick that up from? Frecks was our biggest earner and he didn’t leave for monetory reasons to save a few quid. I agreed with both of these moves, although it would have been good to keep frecks until the end of the year. I do agree with your comment on Wood though, I was really surprised he got an extension. I was hoping that we would have gotten someone in to replace him in Jan, but look at our defence now. I’ve no idea how you go from one of the worst deference’s I’ve seen for many a year to one of the best. But to me it looks like more of a team effort, at S****horpe I saw both smith and Newhall tracking back all the way to our box to make vital interceptions.

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T71
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Nobody will convince me Johno isn't better than Smudger & Ball. Must have gone to even the budget up. What's going to happen if Smudger is out? Answers please.

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smiler
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'What's point of Lavery being here, Yates still here with Johno gone. Can't work it out. Somebody tell me'.

I will tell you.

Clarke-Harris had to bide his time to get a game after Moore made such an impact. When his chance came he failed to take it. Again. We threw Smith a lifeline from where he was with Bury, and look how he has made the most of it. Compare and contrast.

Lavery and Yates are both hard working players who want to learn and always give their best. Lavery may not be our player but I believe we have an option on him. Yates always puts a shift in even when playing out of position and when he has played this season we have generally won. They both deserve more time and further opportunities.

There will always be a few who are prepared to give JCH more and more chances in case that big breakthrough is just around the corner. Warne is our manager. He is doing a great job. He has decided that enough is enough, and that there is no pot of gold at the end of that particular rainbow. He has decided that it is time to move on from JCH.

Good luck to JCH wherever he ends up, but we need to move on too.

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MillerBear
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It’s quite clear that Smith and Ball are better than JCH as all 3 have had opportunities in the team, Ball has 7 goals this season, Smith has 3 in 4 starts. JCH never took the numerous chances he had, I feel he’ll end up like Jordan Bowery working his way around the lower leagues before dropping out into non league. Jordan also had the attributes of JCH, strong and powerfull and on his day was a real handful but could never do it consistently. I still can’t believe Tom Hitch**** fell into non league after that wonderful hat trick he scored for us. The truth is, if you can’t prove yourself pretty quickly you miss your chance and drop down the leagues until you find your level.

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C
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Bournmiller has Paul Warne done something to you? Every post he's getting hammered despite the job he's doing. Let last season go it's been and gone.

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MillerBear
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You cannot judge PW on last year He inherited a squad in meltdown with some pretty mercenary players (which is what was all that was left to us at the time). You can see just by the sheer number of players he removed from last years squad the awful dressing room he inherited. I’m sure you have all picked up on how many times PW has said in interviews how great it is to have a ‘nice bunch of guys’ playing for the team. This says everything you need to know about last year. If PW has spent all the money the club had on purging out the problems of last year, then I say they it’s money well spent. This year everyone is pulling in the right direction, if we end up 10th outside the playoffs I for one will applaud all the squad off the pitch for what we have achieved tris year. UTM

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