He's gonna get fired - it's a matter of when not if and TS will spout a load of excuses and say we have Pep, Jose and Arsene knocking out door down before employing Stuart Gray.
Its all the big talk from TS that gets my back up NY, but I would venture to suggest we'd had been better off with Stuart Gray. He would have done a job for us, perhaps not spectacular but I think he'd have put the wedge in and would have started to give us the stability we desperately need. Deeds speak louder than words.
The reason Warnock didn't stay was becauce he would only ever be in a relegation scrap with the players we have and the limited transfer fund. These were his words not mine. So what do we expect from a less experienced manager, top 5 listening to some fans, wish they would get realistic.
It's not too soon to sack him. Equally it would be crazy to do so unless warnock wants in. However , I'm also afraid that apart from that being ridiculous , we also got rid of the players who were decent at this level ...and stubbs ain't playing ones we still have but prefers unfit and untried players. It's mind boggling if you think it through.
I'm stated before and once again I'm glad he got some stick coz he deserves it and needs it. He hasn't had it apparently as a manager which is worrying coz he underachievd in Scotland. Honestly , I feel like Brad 😉 but I can't stop banging on about why we let Derbyshire and best go. Utter madness. Who the he'll decided that ? Honestly , it's enough to make one think they are watching the games with zero understanding.
Like Worcester said , can't change it for obvious reasons and we can't get anyone to sign for us with pedigree-scored at a lower level prolifically or in this league- how did we get to within 3 days of the window and no bloody striker.
P.'s. Yates looked more of a goal threat than the whole team when he came on. He's ready so let him have a go. After all you have 8 other players out there who looked astonishing bored
Pill anyone !
-- Edited by ian on Monday 29th of August 2016 03:05:15 PM
Sorry Ian but it's ridiculous to say it isn't too soon to sack Stubbs. There are very many instances of supporters baying for the blood of managers and those managers getting time despite bad starts and abuse from supporters and then turning it round. Fergie is the best known example. He was hated at MUFC for a time. Johnson at Barnsley last season is another. Stubbs has had five league games for crying out loud. We haven't been good but we have four points, time to add to the squad and some good players. It is just nonsense to even think in terms of a sacking. Look at Warnocks record in his last proper job (at Palace). It was shocking but only over a short period. Did that make him a bad manager? Of course not. We saw that afterwards. Also, I was near enough to hear the nature of the abuse Stubbs got and it was way too personal and truly vile. He is not a serial killer. He is a decent man trying his best with a football team. No man should have to tolerate what was dished out to him. It was so bad that I wouldn't blame him if he won three or four games in a row and told us to shove it. The whole episode is farcical and does us no credit.
for heavens sake look at you i didnt go to the match asi had other commitments. but i listened on the radio.
yes we was bad . but its not all stubbs fault.
tony has made the following mistakes
1) He let warnock decide who stayed and who went at the end of the season the only input stubbs had was derbyshire and best left on own accord.
2) He let warnock dilly dally far too long. while he waited to see if another club came in. and to be honest i dont think we would be any better under him as his style got found out.
3) The budget tony knows he has to spend but is been prudent and walked away from the gregory deal. bradshaw for a variety of reasons.
4) would we want evans transfer policy version of storage hunters back
Stubbs has had to rebuild a side and given the emphasis on youth. how many of you was moaning last season under warnock where are our youth players why are they been given a go.
due to warnock we didnt even have a full team until late into preseason. stubbs has had to be patient had REBUILD a team that has to get to know each other. we are behind again. and that not stubbs fault.
we played well against brentford in my opinion . Barnsley were up for it but we are only 5 games in look at the other teams who hjave spent loads
preston
derby who would predict burton turning them over
leeds
they are also trying to gel so give him time give the team time
stubbs knows that we need stiker and left back
we also need halford as the holding midfieder
for heavens sake look at you i didnt go to the match asi had other commitments. but i listened on the radio.
yes we was bad . but its not all stubbs fault.
tony has made the following mistakes 1) He let warnock decide who stayed and who went at the end of the season the only input stubbs had was derbyshire and best left on own accord.
2) He let warnock dilly dally far too long. while he waited to see if another club came in. and to be honest i dont think we would be any better under him as his style got found out. 3) The budget tony knows he has to spend but is been prudent and walked away from the gregory deal. bradshaw for a variety of reasons.
4) would we want evans transfer policy version of storage hunters back
Stubbs has had to rebuild a side and given the emphasis on youth. how many of you was moaning last season under warnock where are our youth players why are they not been given a go.
due to warnock we didnt even have a full team until late into preseason. stubbs has had to be patient had REBUILD a team that has to get to know each other. we are behind again. and that not stubbs fault.
we played well against brentford in my opinion . Barnsley were up for it but we are only 5 games in look at the other teams who hjave spent loads
preston derby who would predict burton turning them over leeds
they are also trying to gel so give him time give the team time
stubbs knows that we need stiker and left back we also need halford as the holding midfieder
for heavens sake look at you i know we are all frustrated but lets have a reality check here.
there are no easy matches barnsley and burton have hit the ground running and only had to tinker slightly with their teams. luckliy we missed out on theone we had a trailist and they signed
i didnt go to the match as i had other commitments. but i listened on the radio.
yes we was bad . but its not all stubbs fault.
tony has made the following mistakes
1) He let warnock decide who stayed and who went at the end of the season the only input stubbs had was derbyshire and best left on own accord.
2) He let warnock dilly dally far too long. while he waited to see if another club came in. and to be honest i dont think we would be any better under him as his style got found out. 3) The budget tony knows he has to spend but is been prudent and walked away from the gregory deal. bradshaw for a variety of reasons.
4) would we want evans transfer policy version of storage hunters back
Stubbs has had to rebuild a side and given the emphasis on youth. how many of you was moaning last season under warnock where are our youth players why are they not been given a go.
due to warnock we didnt even have a full team until late into preseason. stubbs has had to be patient had REBUILD a team that has to get to know each other. we are behind again. and that not stubbs fault.
we played well against brentford in my opinion . Barnsley were up for it but we are only 5 games in look at the other teams who hjave spent loads
preston derby who would predict burton turning them over leeds
they are also trying to gel so give him time give the team time
stubbs knows that we need stiker and left back we also need halford as the holding midfieder
Sorry Ian but it's ridiculous to say it isn't too soon to sack Stubbs. There are very many instances of supporters baying for the blood of managers and those managers getting time despite bad starts and abuse from supporters and then turning it round. Fergie is the best known example. He was hated at MUFC for a time. Johnson at Barnsley last season is another. Stubbs has had five league games for crying out loud. We haven't been good but we have four points, time to add to the squad and some good players. It is just nonsense to even think in terms of a sacking. Look at Warnocks record in his last proper job (at Palace). It was shocking but only over a short period. Did that make him a bad manager? Of course not. We saw that afterwards. Also, I was near enough to hear the nature of the abuse Stubbs got and it was way too personal and truly vile. He is not a serial killer. He is a decent man trying his best with a football team. No man should have to tolerate what was dished out to him. It was so bad that I wouldn't blame him if he won three or four games in a row and told us to shove it. The whole episode is farcical and does us no credit.
I think you have taken my post out of context.
Its simply a factual comment.
your arguments are ok but you say I said something by simply responding to the first sentence. No need to be sorry but do comment on the piece in context.
There is very much evidence as Ive attempted to say that managers simply stay too long. There are countless examples of managers who got off to a bad start and never recovered. Also, stubbs unlike fergie and Johnston warnock doesnt have a good historical evidence base.
I think its entirely resonable to decide to end something very quickly if you see the obvious signs. Its very true about the way things are in general:
A job
A relationship
a purchase
an initial reaction
Im not saying he should be sacked as you can see if you read and digest beyond the first sentence. Im just saying that it can be quite prudent to change ones mind very quickly.
The judgement we are always asked to make in life is whether we have made a good decision or whether and when it is right to adjust that decision. Its the stuff of every moment of life really so Im not sure why you are reacting like Ive said he should be sacked when I plainly havent. Im simply saying that there is as much evidence to sack him as there was to appoint him...there is not as much evidence to keep him on...currently....and there is the daily dilemma we limited humans are faced with. Risk managers need to decide when to go and when to invest. Most people go for safety of long term investment. occasionally there are things that work out well in terms of a steady return but one has to suffer slow growth and ups and down that can often be worse than the initial investment.
Ethics and morals dont come into returns and results.
even happiness in relationships. One might be unhappy/happy based on the idea one should stay together no matter what or for the kids or because you dont want to take a financial hit. But, if you are looking for real results you would only look to performance and act accordingly.
I think this is the mad italians philosophy and that of many a city broker...
valid but not what is palatable to some.
-- Edited by ian on Tuesday 30th of August 2016 10:08:54 AM
Ian, I saw what you were saying. I acknowledge that you weren't advocating sacking Stubbs but lots of people are, and the fact that the discussion is happening at all is pure madness. I don't share your view that you can ever judge a few games into a managers reign whether he is going to be good or not. Stubbs may not have had the best of starts but even great managers have bad runs. If they have a bad run early on and you sack them you would never find out they were great at all. MUFC were in the bottom half of the league when Robins saved Fergie and they were unfurling banners calling for his head. I bet they are glad now that they didn't get their way. Also whilst I see that you think that it wouldn't do any harm for Stubbs to hear what the fans thought, I wanted to make it clear that in my opinion the way that was done by some was plain unacceptable.
I think many of us are getting rather nervous and see parallels with Redfearn, but unlike Smiler I believe we should be having the debate, if only to vent our frustrations
I liked Redfearn and I like Stubbs, my main bone of contention is with TS - not doing what he said he was going to do - re managers. It seems the club continues to be run in a very amateurish way, and we see other clubs in similar situations to ours doing so much better both on and off the field. Its often embarrassing. Recruitment being a case in point, an issue which hopefully has now been addressed.
I've been quietly confident about Stubbs and think he will turn it around, but I still feel nervous and understand the feelings of the many. we can only wait and see.
yes, there were some real ugly characters there...scary in there anger and dare I say intelligence .
I felt quite disappointed but in truth my first reaction was fairly so-so.
We did enough first half and then they got a badly defended scrappy goal...At that point we caved in and I can understand that to some extent. Teams do that occasionally.
I was very impressed with Barnsley. They were super quick and pressed relentlessly but didnt use the long ball and charge tactic.
Their defence seems very committed and fairly comfortable most of the time and when they werent they just muscled us out. That Angus bloke was class on the day and to think he was a replacement for what is deemed to be a very, very good defender really irked me.
When one gets hammered like that and reflects its not difficult to come up with loads of reasons. The most galling thing is having no striker and being very disappointed in IBs work rate not to mention the midfield in general.
We have scored a goal and hung on to it. That Im afraid is the extent of our ambition thus far. It is fairly incredible we havent had a striker...if he gets one in now then one has to put the past to bed and see what the future holds. Its nervy times because we know the loan system wont save us this time.
I think many of us are getting rather nervous and see parallels with Redfearn, but unlike Smiler I believe we should be having the debate, if only to vent our frustrations
I liked Redfearn and I like Stubbs, my main bone of contention is with TS - not doing what he said he was going to do - re managers. It seems the club continues to be run in a very amateurish way, and we see other clubs in similar situations to ours doing so much better both on and off the field. Its often embarrassing. Recruitment being a case in point, an issue which hopefully has now been addressed.
I've been quietly confident about Stubbs and think he will turn it around, but I still feel nervous and understand the feelings of the many. we can only wait and see.
I too like the personality of Redfern and Stubbs but ultimately got very disappointed with the emerging weakness Redfern showed and I dont wan to see stubbs do the same.
I wouldnt trust Warnock as far as I could throw him but you wouldnt mess with him and with respect you play or you leave.
You are correct about the club in general though. If one thinks about what TS has said about players and managers it just hasnt happened and he must have a totally different framework in his head than the fans coz each time we are left trying to marry up what he has said and what we get.
We havent been the worse run club football wise, I think Charlton and Fulham might be contenders, but we are not making up for our lack of natural clout with good ergonomics at boardroom level and coaching/recruitment level.
I hate to say it coz others will mock but steve evans did bring some very good players in...warnock did some good deals and got them playing...we do indeed fear a Redfern.
-- Edited by ian on Tuesday 30th of August 2016 01:56:37 PM
