Listening to the reactions to todays game, how long before it becomes untenable for Stubbs? I am not saying he has to go and could well turn it around, but when is the cut off point? Another three games like yesterday and people will be revolting.
They will. But remember he's had no preseason with these players and they are still bonding as a unit.. I said a while ago forget August it will take stubs a while. He's bought young players who will have to learn the dirty side of the game. Let's judge at Xmas.
I just had a look at the league table from this time last season. After five games (three of which were home games) we were bottom with one point. We had just lost 3:1 at home to Fulham - our second heavy home defeat. More interestingly MK Dons and Charlton were both in the top half. In League One Barnsley were about to go on a run of nine defeats in a row. They stuck by their young manager and in the end he left them after turning it around once his young side had 'clicked'. His number two who went through the same bad run with him was in charge of the team that made us look foolish in the end yesterday. No offence to you Sickly because I know you are only asking a question, but there are lots of supporters (and I use the word ironically) calling for Stubbs to get the bullet already. He is after all on a losing streak of one in a row. He is apparently clueless. His hundreds of games in the premier league and experience on the staff at Everton as well as cutting his teeth at Hibs count for nothing. He doesn't even deserve a chance. I don't know whether he will turn out to be a good manager for us or not but for heavens sake, when did we become the sort of club that turns on its own manager and players so quickly? Yesterday was very disappointing of course but the reaction to it is completely hysterical. How much do you think the players are looking forward to the next game after the abuse they got at close quarters when they left the pitch? It is a pathetic state of affairs.
Unbelievably impatient Sickly. In all walks of life. Yesterday at half time they got a good hand going in at half time. A win last week and a first half which was pretty even, although we stood off them too much, and you are thinking things aren't that bad. Half an hour later they have got an opener from a goalmouth scramble and a quick second from a freak deflection on a shot that Camp would have dropped his cap on otherwise, and the wheels come off. Don't get me wrong we were poor overall and we caved in worryingly at the death, but it is still very early days and the reaction to it was sickening to be honest.
Smiler, I sincerely hope you are right and Stubbs somehow pulls the proverbial out of the hat before Wednesday 11pm. But the signs don't bode well do they? This has all the hallmarks of a Redfearn situation, a manager with little Championship experience who thinks he can build a team of young, hungry lads and coach them to play pretty football when what we need is seasoned campaigners who are prepared to fight in a relegation scrap. But after a bright start here has been an alarming drop off in form of this team and apart form a 25 minute spell against Wolves we have been dire. The away games at Villa and Brighton were as poor a performance you are likely to see from a Rotherham side (until yesterday), lightweight, no invention, no tenacity and as soon as we go a goal down, no fight and no way back. We beat Brentford at home after going a goal up and hanging on for the remainder of the match. In truth, had the Brentford forwards had their shooting boots on they would have won that game. And then we had yesterday's capitulation which was embarrassing.
Stubbs has bought in midfielder after midfielder who have not improved our team. It is clear to anyone where our problems lie after letting experienced campaigners like Best and Derbyshire go and then having Clarke-Harris on the treatment table so we are left with a young lad whose never played at this level before and Danny Ward who is hardly prolific in front of goal but 12 weeks (yes that's 12 whole weeks!) later nothing, not a sausage in the attacking department, not even a lower league rough diamond.
Our defence is so porous even I could score against it, yet we have totally stripped out the rear guard that was so effective at the end of last season under Warnock. Mattock (our only left back) had a couple of bad games and is consigned to the bench with Smallwood (what's he done wrong?) and Halford can't even make the bench. Watch goals three and four against Barnsley and see how our centre backs stood off and failed to put in any sort of challenge - you know like the ones where we threw bodies in front of the ball at the end of last season.
The similarities to Redfearn are stark and Stubbs either needs to change his philosophy or TS needs to take action and sooner rather than later. The next few days will be the most critical in Stubbs' career. I hope the irons he has in the fire are real and he gets some players in worthy of the shirt.
-- Edited by S8Miller on Sunday 28th of August 2016 09:18:42 AM
But can we rely on TS taking action, or should I say appropriate action. Since we were promoted its been as plain as a pikestaff that we needed experience management and a spine of experienced players, and that costs money.
Evans dismantled the promotion winning side for one reason or another, (unlike Barnsley) which in my opinion was a mistake because we lost the team spirit and habit of winning and wanting to win. Redfearn as has already been mentioned tried to rebuild and hold back the flood of negativity at the same time. Neither managers had the experience I believe we needed to gain a solid foothold in the division.
Warnock showed how it can be done and at that point I genuinely thought we (the club) had learned the lesson particularly when TS boasted about the quality of the dozens of applications for the managers post, all according to TS with the Championship experience that we so desperately needed. Instead we get Stubbs who has enjoyed limited success in a league completely different to the Championship and at a club that had some stability. We have anything but stability. Every year we have a clear out of 11-14 players and get a new lot in all with varying levels of skill and experience, usually on the cheap and expect them to perform like seasoned campaigners.
I like Stubbs and sincerely hope he can turn it around. But why when we needed to steady the ship did TS go against everything that he said and bring in another manager who, as far as the Championship is concerned, is learning on the job.
The fault for these last three years of uncertainty and the debacle that is these last few games lays squarely at the feet of the Chairman. He needs some help and guidance.
Many of us said when Redfern was incharge we needed some one who was a football man to help that useless commitee, this is so apparent after yesterday's shambolic embarrassing inept performance, AS obviously going to have to take the blame but there are a lot more people who have got to look at them selves that includes theme morons at the end of the game of that's how you support the Millers for pitys sake keep away.
In answer to the proposition one has to admit it's an unenviable decision.
Common sense and evidence informs us that there are good and bad managers and performers. It also supports the idea that things don't improve unless attitude and behaviour change. It's therefore much more reasonable to choose someone who has the attribute's and cam provide the evidence of achievement one desires.
Stubbs can't do that .
TS has not shown he knows what a good manager is.
We have survive the last two years and grown off the pitch re income.
I wonder if we have lacked quality football men in key positions ...like a manager
Yep and that will be it we have what we have until January
And we want to get a new manager in to work with another managers players??? with no ability to sign anymore??
Not really, but I do want Stubbs to just get it right and if that means changing the systems he's trying to play then so be it. Stop trying to fit square pegs in round holes, stop trying to leaver your favourites into the team and for god sake play the experienced players who know what this league is all.
get real and get a grip folks, how many out of contract strikers are available ??? and match fit.
He's had 10 bloody weeks to sort this out, other teams have managed to sign players, why have we failed so miserably? He told Stewart that Bradshaw wasn't worth the extra money but had no plan B. We have one fit striker who is nowhere near prolific enough and a kid who has never played in the Championship and that's it! Yet he manages to sign a surfeit of midfielders ... why?
Its going to be hard and painful, but what i saw last week against Brentford, gave me hope.
Yes it is but if you are happy with a team that managed to take a lead and then defend for their lives for an hour against a misfiring opposition at home, then it is going to be a very long season indeed.
I honestly fear the worst and I while I will always be grateful to TS I think his football knowledge is limited. He kind of hit the jackpot with Evans but most of his other choices have been questionable.
This is all a massive over reaction. The man has only had five games in which he is finding his feet getting to know his squad and shaping them. I'm sure getting on the teams back after a few games is helping enormously. In his last managerial position he took a while but sculptured a decent squad so give him time. We all wanted a younger side with potential (we can't afford the finished article) but potential is exactly that , so have patience give them support and judge after 20 games not 5. The squad does need more signings and im sure stubs would like 5 million to invest but he's not getting that either. He needs time to motivate sculpt the team and get the last few players in. It's new ground for them all but I'd rather have the potential than the +30 brigade. Get behind them not on their backs. UTM
AS needed a solid spine of CB, CM and CF in the team to keep things ticking over until they gel. He doesn't have that either through poor selection in the market or lack of funds.
If we at least had the finisher we would pinch a few goals and points. We looked bewildered and out of our depth yesterday and IB looked the worst of them, plus as I said last week, he has to put in a shift tracking back.
TS seems more like someone who'd favour the SE type than a newbie trying to bring in cultured football on a shoestring. I know for sure SE would have been on that touchline (and probably the pitch) for most of the second half. AS did nothing - no tactical adjustment and too late with the subs - as soon as we drop 15 yards and go into our shell he should chuck legs on - Smallwood or Halford to steady the ship and bring some grit.
He's gonna get fired - it's a matter of when not if and TS will spout a load of excuses and say we have Pep, Jose and Arsene knocking out door down before employing Stuart Gray.
We had 'the resources' thing all last season and it is a load of rubbish. Granted, we can't compete with the Sheff Weds, Derbys & Brightons of this league but can with the likes of Blackburn, Preston and Huddersfields.
Warnock showed what is possible - and he had to work with what he had.
Stubbs has stated that more players will be leaving than expected. Well from the starting 11 the only ones he didn't sign was Camp and Ward. And people complained about Evans wasting money.
He needs to instill passion and belief into these players, and he needs to do it quickly. One more heavy defeat could see Tony taking action.
