I do not think that everyone who voted leave is a racist, but I do believe every racist would have voted to leave.
I'm sorry but this is not true, not true at all. Please show me real proof that says this is so. You can't, because it doesn't exist. It is a case of if you say it often enough then it becomes true. I have seen tweets with my own eyes from people with racist views who voted remain.
Sorry S8 miller but talking to family some who voted leave and looking at some very unpleasant stuff on the net it seem clear to me that there was a large anti -immigration and at times racist element to many of the leave voters. Maybe that makes you uncomfortable being aligned to these people. I am just saying it as I see it. People like Forage play on fear and ignorance. Now I think there are some strong arguments for leaving the EU and I am not sure how I would have voted (probably remain) but I am not naïve enough to ignore the obvious. Most of the demographics point to poorly educated and lower socio economic voters choosing leave. The ignorant and those with nothing to lose. The Union will be lost and I believe (could be wrong) that my country will be much worse off, the Tories will probably swing to the right and those worse off will be left with nothing except a mistaken belief that somehow they have control.
Having said all this I do understand the frustration with the EU and the problems that large scale immigration brings, if I was home I would be wearing a safety pin, in support of the hard working people that moved to the UK in order to find a better future for their families. Just like I did.
If this is an "utter disaster" then the blame lies 100% with the government and Tory party for having the referendum in the first place to satisfy age old squabbles and for allowing a personal ambition to be the PM hoodwink the country. Blame Boris because the dreadful Gove and Farage would not have been able to sell this to the public.
Sorry S8 miller but talking to family some who voted leave and looking at some very unpleasant stuff on the net it seem clear to me that there was a large anti -immigration and at times racist element to many of the leave voters. Maybe that makes you uncomfortable being aligned to these people. I am just saying it as I see it. People like Forage play on fear and ignorance. Now I think there are some strong arguments for leaving the EU and I am not sure how I would have voted (probably remain) but I am not naïve enough to ignore the obvious. Most of the demographics point to poorly educated and lower socio economic voters choosing leave. The ignorant and those with nothing to lose. The Union will be lost and I believe (could be wrong) that my country will be much worse off, the Tories will probably swing to the right and those worse off will be left with nothing except a mistaken belief that somehow they have control. Having said all this I do understand the frustration with the EU and the problems that large scale immigration brings, if I was home I would be wearing a safety pin, in support of the hard working people that moved to the UK in order to find a better future for their families. Just like I did.
Here's what you said "I do believe every racist would have voted to leave" and it has quickly transformed into "there was a large anti -immigration and at times racist element to many of the leave voters" now maybe we can have a sensible debate on that issue.
And it's too convenient to make immigration such a binary issue - brexiters wanted it to be better controlled - not banned. I've spoken to no one who wants to pull up the drawbridge- just to make sure the numbers coming here can be catered for and that they come here for a new life of work and not a life with better benefits.
The EU has ruined the lives of the young in Spain and Greece - sacrificed on the alter of German financial engineering.
Fair enough, remember belief does not necessarily equate to truth and you have shown the error of my presumption. Therefore my belief will change, I now believe that an awful lot of racists voted to leave, though many of those that voted to leave were not racist.
Sorry S8 miller but talking to family some who voted leave and looking at some very unpleasant stuff on the net it seem clear to me that there was a large anti -immigration and at times racist element to many of the leave voters. Maybe that makes you uncomfortable being aligned to these people. I am just saying it as I see it. People like Forage play on fear and ignorance. Now I think there are some strong arguments for leaving the EU and I am not sure how I would have voted (probably remain) but I am not naïve enough to ignore the obvious. Most of the demographics point to poorly educated and lower socio economic voters choosing leave. The ignorant and those with nothing to lose. The Union will be lost and I believe (could be wrong) that my country will be much worse off, the Tories will probably swing to the right and those worse off will be left with nothing except a mistaken belief that somehow they have control. Having said all this I do understand the frustration with the EU and the problems that large scale immigration brings, if I was home I would be wearing a safety pin, in support of the hard working people that moved to the UK in order to find a better future for their families. Just like I did.
Sicklychild...Are you a more eloquent version of me in one of those parallel universe things?
Fair enough, remember belief does not necessarily equate to truth and you have shown the error of my presumption. Therefore my belief will change, I now believe that an awful lot of racists voted to leave, though many of those that voted to leave were not racist.
"Britain has not become racist overnight" and what constitutes a racist? Clearly there are some very nasty, vile people who live amongst us. But there are also people who many would say hold racist views but who perhaps do so because of our failure as a nation to discus openly and honestly issues like immigration, Islamic extremism, sexual exploitation by young men of Asian descent etc.
See below for a more measured piece than any you will see in the Guardian over the last few days. Clearly it is an issue and it probably had an impact on the result. How big? I have no idea.
Again I don't necessarily disagree, I think the 'left' has been hopelessly negligent with discussing the issues you raise and this is the price of some of that.
I must also stress that I detest those that prey on the vulnerable. Asian grooming gangs, deluded virgins of the priesthood and the nuns who serve them, Gary Glitter, Jimmy Saville etc.
Its a parody of a tweet by an imaginary you S8 denying that the out vote has caused a major political crisis which seems to be worsening by the day.
..and there I was quite pleased with my post thinking it was quite funny.
I seem to be on a run of getting things wrong!
Ah politics, a week is along time indeed. You know what Kempo? The ******s will sort themselves out eventually, but the sun still came up this morning, the markets are fairly nonplussed by it all and life goes on as usual. There's an old business adage that you should 'never waste a good crisis' very apt given recent events. A time for reflection and a time for a strong leader to emerge.
Quite frankly I was prepared for a bigger crisis than the one we see. I thought market reaction would have been a lot worse. Early days I know and the wrong move or wrong phrase by the Governor of the BoE or the PM and things could reverse very quickly.
Very interesting times.
-- Edited by S8Miller on Friday 1st of July 2016 10:02:01 AM
There is an underlying racism that simmers away under the surface in this country but it's probably no more than in other European countries.
France has a significant problem related to the Muslim community for instance and to my surprise my son who works in Switzerland was quite shocked by the fairly open anti semitism.
A bigger or equal problem in this country is our arrogant Anglocentric view of everything which is the main reason that the rest of the EU have a healthy dislike of us.
This false view that we are the best at everything is another driver of this sad vote.
It seems at the moment that we have an out decision but nobody has much idea what they are supposed to do with it.
One logical argument for having another vote is that the people now have a better idea of the consequences and two major lies are not only exposed but admitted by the promoters of an out vote.
We have also seen the disgraceful and childish speech by Farage to the very people who we will have to negotiate with cap in hand.
I am pretty sure it won't happen but it would save the country as a significant number would change their vote I would guess and more young would now vote.
I understand the arguments against another vote but I think it is so important that it should happen or better just rejected for the sake of the country and the economic disaster ahead.
