Quite right Heman. Its all a sick joke and I cant believe intelligent people are taken in by it. If I believed the fairies in my back garden, and set up a shrine and could be seen praying and singing to them while wearing a long frock, my neighbours would think I'm nuts.

Sunni Muslims butcher Shia Mulims, they both butcher christians and jews. Christians butcher muslims, jews and other christians (catholics and protestants) . Jews butcher Muslims and have been known to butcher christians. They have done so for centuries and yet, all profess to be the bringer of peace, love and tolerance. They pray for peace, as if God is going to make it happen. Dont they realise that if they want peace all they have to do is stop f**cking killing each other, live and let live.

But we continue to butcher each other and pray for peace because the other man(terrorist) is wrong and needs sorting out first. For goodness sake, if God was so almighty and able to create the Universe and everything in it, surely he could sort out the wrong un's himself; send a tsunami or two, an almighty volcano eruption or pestilence and disease or something. He dosen't need self appointed mortal custodians of the holy word to punish them for him.

Fear, thats another word for religion. Fear of God; we've all heard the saying "God fearing man". Fear of hell, fear of death, fear of muslims and jews. Fear of the foreigner, the police, the boss at work and the leader. Keep everyone afraid of the other man and you can, as Heman says, control the masses, make them do what you want them to. You can make them vote for you through fear of the other, you can make them take up arms and fight and die for you so that you can enrich yourself on another mans oil. You can manipulate them so they cannot think for themselves and accept anything, and they'll do it because God is on our side.

There are those who can see through this hall of mirrors and are able to think for themselves, but they then become a danger and have to be removed. Thomas Tyndale for instance was burned at the stake for translating the bible into English so that everyone could read the word of God and see for themselves they were being hoodwinked. Allahu akbar? Shalom?............. My ar5e

smiler wrote:

---

I don't like Douglas Murray and don't share many of his neocon views. I wholeheartedly agree though that religion is the product of fear and is exploited by power seekers. I have a relative (a Mormon) who really does believe that one day a man called Smith walked up a hill and found a book made of gold and was told he was the chosen one. It is no better than a fairy story to my mind, but she believes it so sincerely that she pays 10% of her income straight into her church. Blind faith. If that gives her comfort then good for her and who am I to say she is wrong? The problem however is that faith like that (and I am obviously not talking here just about Mormons or even Mormons at all) gets manipulated and twisted by power seekers to their own ends.

---

But here in lies the problem, you have every right and in some sense a duty to tell her she is wrong. If someone said the Sun orbits the Earth we would have no problems in pointing out that the evidence all points to the opposite. Yet with religion we ***** foot around saying well each to their own, belief doesn't hurt anyone. Well trying saying that to the guys getting beheaded because they don't believe something that there is no evidence for. Religion has caused untold misery for thousands of years and as soon as we leave it in the toy cupboard the better the human race will be. Rational reasoned evidenced based belief is our way forward if we don't want to destroy humanity. A plague on all their houses and hope they all get the pox. :)    

ian wrote:

---

sickly child wrote:

---

smiler wrote:

---

I don't like Douglas Murray and don't share many of his neocon views. I wholeheartedly agree though that religion is the product of fear and is exploited by power seekers. I have a relative (a Mormon) who really does believe that one day a man called Smith walked up a hill and found a book made of gold and was told he was the chosen one. It is no better than a fairy story to my mind, but she believes it so sincerely that she pays 10% of her income straight into her church. Blind faith. If that gives her comfort then good for her and who am I to say she is wrong? The problem however is that faith like that (and I am obviously not talking here just about Mormons or even Mormons at all) gets manipulated and twisted by power seekers to their own ends.

---

But here in lies the problem, you have every right and in some sense a duty to tell her she is wrong. If someone said the Sun orbits the Earth we would have no problems in pointing out that the evidence all points to the opposite. Yet with religion we ***** foot around saying well each to their own, belief doesn't hurt anyone. Well trying saying that to the guys getting beheaded because they don't believe something that there is no evidence for. Religion has caused untold misery for thousands of years and as soon as we leave it in the toy cupboard the better the human race will be. Rational reasoned evidenced based belief is our way forward if we don't want to destroy humanity. A plague on all their houses and hope they all get the pox. :)    

---

 This is one reason I chose Mr Murray. He is rejected by some but yet he strides some very important middle ground. Trump also clearly represents a sizable minority but Murray would not go anywhere near his proclamations. Likewise Hithens who is considered both Liberal and Neocon. And what about Dawkins who is held in very high esteem by some liberals but whos philosophy is very aggressive towards religion.

The issue here is that ideologies have become the new cause for liberalism. Its such a confused state of affairs. Gays , women, children, etc, were all rightly a focus of political correctness. But, there is one main difference. Their ideology is not in fundamental conflict with western ideology.  Even a moderate person with an extreme ideology has a different view on basic matters of relationships , social inclusion and crime and punishment. This does not matter when the culture they are in is respected but the open door policy of Europe and Northern America is incredible short sighted. Without checks demographics change and so does politics. Look at Syria and Pakistan and India; the Balkans and Turkey. Multiculturalism is very dangerous and benefits no one.

 

There really is an issue here that some have worried about for decades. We are really seeing it now take place in our very own lives. How long can we ignore the concern of liberal and otherwise peaceful people who only want to live there lives and let others have equal choice.

Fear is not bias. Fear is a Bias product of an unequal system.

There is no hope for a world where ideology of any kind suggest that they above all others are right and others therefor must conform. No one shall make me a slave. And when enough people get to that point its going to get a whole lot different here in Leafy suburbia. 

---

It is a very small world we live in.  We (the West) have run riot round the world for decades, and now we want to box ourselves in and protect our own bit of it?  I am afraid it isn't that simple.  Where Murray is right is where he says that the ridiculous religious zealots that we are faced with (of all kinds) are basing their view of the world on stories written in a time centuries before we even realised the world was round.  The Bible, The Quran etc simply have no relevance in the modern world.  The way to tackle the problem you identify is not to shrink into our shell and build walls around ourselves (the Trump approach).   We can do that if we want but the world will change around us and overtake us eventually.  The better way is to engage with and support the vast majority of people who are essentially good and peaceful but at the same time challenge - in a constructive way where possible but more directly where we are left with no alternative - the minority who are not.  To pick up on Sickly's point, if in the meantime we can focus on being good people rather than good Christians/Muslims/Jews etc the World will surely be a better place for it.  It is a complex problem and it needs a many layered, sophisticated approach to make it better.  Finally, I can't end this post without pointing out that your statement that 'multiculturalism benefits no one' is just outright wrong. 

smiler wrote:

---

ian wrote:

---

sickly child wrote:

---

smiler wrote:

---

I don't like Douglas Murray and don't share many of his neocon views. I wholeheartedly agree though that religion is the product of fear and is exploited by power seekers. I have a relative (a Mormon) who really does believe that one day a man called Smith walked up a hill and found a book made of gold and was told he was the chosen one. It is no better than a fairy story to my mind, but she believes it so sincerely that she pays 10% of her income straight into her church. Blind faith. If that gives her comfort then good for her and who am I to say she is wrong? The problem however is that faith like that (and I am obviously not talking here just about Mormons or even Mormons at all) gets manipulated and twisted by power seekers to their own ends.

---

But here in lies the problem, you have every right and in some sense a duty to tell her she is wrong. If someone said the Sun orbits the Earth we would have no problems in pointing out that the evidence all points to the opposite. Yet with religion we ***** foot around saying well each to their own, belief doesn't hurt anyone. Well trying saying that to the guys getting beheaded because they don't believe something that there is no evidence for. Religion has caused untold misery for thousands of years and as soon as we leave it in the toy cupboard the better the human race will be. Rational reasoned evidenced based belief is our way forward if we don't want to destroy humanity. A plague on all their houses and hope they all get the pox. :)    

---

 This is one reason I chose Mr Murray. He is rejected by some but yet he strides some very important middle ground. Trump also clearly represents a sizable minority but Murray would not go anywhere near his proclamations. Likewise Hithens who is considered both Liberal and Neocon. And what about Dawkins who is held in very high esteem by some liberals but whos philosophy is very aggressive towards religion.

The issue here is that ideologies have become the new cause for liberalism. Its such a confused state of affairs. Gays , women, children, etc, were all rightly a focus of political correctness. But, there is one main difference. Their ideology is not in fundamental conflict with western ideology.  Even a moderate person with an extreme ideology has a different view on basic matters of relationships , social inclusion and crime and punishment. This does not matter when the culture they are in is respected but the open door policy of Europe and Northern America is incredible short sighted. Without checks demographics change and so does politics. Look at Syria and Pakistan and India; the Balkans and Turkey. Multiculturalism is very dangerous and benefits no one.

 

There really is an issue here that some have worried about for decades. We are really seeing it now take place in our very own lives. How long can we ignore the concern of liberal and otherwise peaceful people who only want to live there lives and let others have equal choice.

Fear is not bias. Fear is a Bias product of an unequal system.

There is no hope for a world where ideology of any kind suggest that they above all others are right and others therefor must conform. No one shall make me a slave. And when enough people get to that point its going to get a whole lot different here in Leafy suburbia. 

---

It is a very small world we live in.  We (the West) have run riot round the world for decades, and now we want to box ourselves in and protect our own bit of it?  I am afraid it isn't that simple.  Where Murray is right is where he says that the ridiculous religious zealots that we are faced with (of all kinds) are basing their view of the world on stories written in a time centuries before we even realised the world was round.  The Bible, The Quran etc simply have no relevance in the modern world.  The way to tackle the problem you identify is not to shrink into our shell and build walls around ourselves (the Trump approach).   We can do that if we want but the world will change around us and overtake us eventually.  The better way is to engage with and support the vast majority of people who are essentially good and peaceful but at the same time challenge - in a constructive way where possible but more directly where we are left with no alternative - the minority who are not.  To pick up on Sickly's point, if in the meantime we can focus on being good people rather than good Christians/Muslims/Jews etc the World will surely be a better place for it.  It is a complex problem and it needs a many layered, sophisticated approach to make it better.  Finally, I can't end this post without pointing out that your statement that 'multiculturalism benefits no one' is just outright wrong. 

 

---

 I have to disagree with the premise that this is a small world. It is not so small that vast differences have existed and continue to and indeed grow between us. The rich and poor are not getting closer together. Democracy's not gaining ground and radicalism is not receding. The only way this is a smaller world is in the fact that multiculturalism has brought strife and terror and stressful living conditions int our daily life and work place. There is not one benefit I can think of that has been a direct result of multiculturalism. No! None.It has brought fear and demonstrated very clearly that humans of different cultures cannot exist and share ideologies without coming into conflict.  Two different ideologies cannot coexist peacefully.

Please dont misunderstand me. I am not and should not be accused of citing anything here to do with individual rights. I am as passionate about that as anyone ever could be. But, I see a different process at work with multiculturalism. Individual rights are not protected in all ideologies and cultures. Indeed, some cultures demand that individual rights are not important at all. How is it possible to share space where those living together cannot agree. It is simply a sham of a marriage. It looks decent on the outside but no one is joyous and happy. Thoise who admit to such a state of affairs are labelled as letting the side down and stating something heretical in much the same way that people who always go against the status quo are accused. It is not so long ago that divorce was hardly heard of in this country and Gays were imprisoned or committed to hospital and women and children were dumped out of society. These changes would not have come about in a society where equal amounts of ideology existed and were respected would they!

No! building walls which the apparent moderate liberal intelligent citizen decries as primitive, and unenlightened is necessary. Physical walls are everywhere already. We have had passports, security, benefits, estates, schools, healthcare, etc. Theses 'walls' are everywhere and they exist to protect society-to make it work. Of course, there are excesses. Dont misquote me. Walls are already everywhere in the whole world. Donald Trump, the Hungarians and seven (7) other fences have been built or extended due to the issues in immigration in Europe in the EU in the last 10 years. Clearly 7 other European states feel the same as me and Donald Trump. Shall we all be labelled-label: what we are not but others want to believe we are.

The other assertion is the west has run riot! Run riot? Where?

The west has poured aid into other ideologies and counties for decades. The west has improved the life styles of countless countries around the world. The world standard of living where it has increased is a direct Regulus of western political, and material markets. It has now become its own product and is rivaling the west all without conflict and sharing of physical space where differences have no chance of working. we can love and respect each other but why do people feel sit necessary to enforce living conditions. A snake cant love with a Mongoose but neither hate each other. The only place where western values are not accepted is where the ideology does not like freedom and self expression. It is so obvious.

The way to bring about peace is not through any political system that suppressors what people really are but to push forward with what we all know is right. Freedom, choice, expression of those things. Suppression, lack of choice, lack of freedom, rules that bind other humans...these are not compatible. The cultures that attack each other do not share ideology. You cannot make them. They are different beasts. Liberalism is not popular because it is not real. It reflects very little of what is life choice. Look at what the liberals did in the UK when they finally got the chance of a life time. They simply gave in to the most powerful force at the time (the tories) and strengthened their hand. Thats why they cant be trusted with very important aspects of real life. They talk a nice world but it is not a real world. They give away freedom in actual effect. If they sided with their natural partners then none of what is happening now would be happening. Whether you agree with this politically or not , the point is clear. side with wishy washy beliefs and suppress what people really feel and one day there will be a rude awakening when the liberals no longer have control and they cannot influence anything and rights, freedom and a way of life has gone for good. At that point you either fight or become a slave forever.

I dont agree with the bombing in syria, so what does all this make me?

I am simply a citizen who believes in the values of this country but who cannot any longer lie about what I actually see and experience. We have gone too far. How stupid we are. who among us would live with those who hated us and disagreed with the way you wanted to live. Why is the Islamic voice in Britain, Europe and the west so silent? It is silent because there is indeed a sympathetic agreement with what is happening.

Peace is no longer possible. It is not actually and never has been. Id like to hear a solution other than a rejection of what I have said. We and the east have been at war for thousands of years. Do Liberals really think this is just because we arent clever or caring?  There have always been beautiful and ordinary good people everywhere too. Is this for any other reason than the fact there have always been good ordinary and beautiful people everywhere.

Contrary , there have always been stupid and hateful people everywhere too. Unfortunately, most of them belong and occur where ideological differences exist. Put an equal amount of stupid hateful people next to an equal amount of beautiful and good people and see what happens.

lets get real.

Andy Monium wrote:

---

Did multiculturalism ever exist? There was a lot of hype to try and promote the concept.

As for the Eurorats, in Brussels. I make no apology for calling them Eurorats.

They are still in denial. The Eurozone collapsed years ago.

As for the poor and destitute migrants walking across the frozen wastelands of Europe.

They have disappeared off the radar while world leaders, that's a joke, world leaders, have been debating climate change while various

parts of the planet are being bombed to bits.

---

 Looks like a useful book...but its essentially a coaching/management book?

Still, I looked at one of the reviews and really enjoyed a quote from one reader:

'The book has many useful insights base on real experience. for instance, there's a good tip on how to avoid thinking you are better than/or need to be better than your otherwise experienced colleagues'.

There's a lot to learn from history but many Europeans prefer to believe that intolerance was the cause of central European issues.

well, in my view it was. But it was due in part to the lack of opportunity for change and self determination. It started with ideology out of which grew a more fervent ideology and ended with a new ideology. 

The Eurocrats are taking us all to hell in a basket based on some soft and unsustainable view of people and what makes them feel safe and positive about life.

Growth should be steady and sustainable.

change should be steady and sustainable.

Whenever we see change in todays world we see it mismanaged. Whether its the millennium bug, the restructuring at work, childcare arrangements, or new targets. Everything is rushed or reactive and ill thought. People are left to suck it up. No one represents those who have worked for years loyally and taken and absorbed change without a thank you.

Then we have terrorism, mass shootings, drop outs, depression, vulnerable old people.

We have to manage change. why would we be so blind to rush head first into it.

Dont know how to upload the video but this link says it all

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPOfurmrjxo