It is time to explode the myth that the public can be trusted. Public opinion as expressed in mass polls is an embarrassment. On Strictly, the black people leave first then the serious stuff begins. The judges had to save the lovely Jamelia several times but the public still wouldn't have it, and poor old Ainsley went out weeks before that nice Jeremy Vine even though they could both dance him into oblivion. We got Cameron in the election. The Americans might go for Trump. Tyson Fury favourite for SPOTY now that there will probably be an anti-pc (anti what is right) backlash on social media. The BBC are good at leaving room for confusion between achievement and likeability aren't they? I don't know now whether the answer is a good dictator or (challengingly for me) The Establishment, which I have come to realise might have been saving us from ourselves all these years.
-- Edited by smiler on Wednesday 9th of December 2015 09:06:01 AM
we want a free democratic society with free speech and equality for all right?
Tyson Fury carries view that are considered unsavoury so pc demand his removal from the sports personality of the year.
Well I don't get it. If he is such a s***bag then people wont vote for him. Now that pc have demanded his removal the 'rise against the machine' people will vote for him.
Donald Trump says ban the immigration of Muslims. PC then become outraged and demand the banning of him entering our country. Double standards if ever I saw them.
now I don't agree with any of the views of either of these people but I defend their right to say it. Especially when said in and about their own country.
people hate the fact that the killer of Lee Rigby is suing for compensation for having his teeth knocked out by prison guards. He has the right to do it.
let him win, then Lee Rigby's family can sue for all his compo.
The question I was trying to pose is whether or not a pure democracy is actually what is best for us, although we could also have a discussion about whether it is what we have got. We certainly haven't got a society in which we have absolute freedom of speech. Civilised societies set boundaries for the greater good of the members of those societies. I wouldn't be allowed to publish all sorts of derogatory statements about people for fear of being sued if they were not true, and I can not stand on street corners or post emails encouraging people to attack others. Those actions are considered to be unacceptable in a civilised society and are outlawed, and I think most right minded people would say rightly so. Just as we do not have the freedom to drive at 100 mph, not pay our taxes etc. Humans can do as much damage with words as they can with actions, and frequently dangerous words lead to or incite damaging behaviour, hence our ability to say what we want is limited in the same way as our ability to do what we want.
I am not saying I think you are right or wrong Heman. The view that everything is fair game is a bit anarchic, but one I am willing to think through. My current thinking though is that (1) we have to have boundaries beyond which people can not go and that applies to words as well as actions and (2) because we are human and therefore fallible perhaps we need saving from ourselves.
Of course I agree that we should have boundaries but the very people who are up in arms about Donald Trump saying don't allow Muslims in are asking for Donald Trump to not be allowed in.
You are either for or against immigration - surely?
I do take the point Heman and we can certainly agree on your final sentence. Whether or not to allow people like this into the country is a tough one, but it isn't about being for or against immigration. He wants to keep all muslims out of America, and he doesn't just mean immigrants. He confirmed he means visitors and even American citizens currently living and working abroad. Despite the bullshine he peddles, almost all of the people he would exclude are decent and law abiding. He on the other hand is making statements that would be unlawful if he said them here. Keep undesirables out of your country - fine with that. On that basis 99% of muslims can go to the US on holiday, but he cant come here. He is worse than them. Having said that I would let him visit if he wanted to - give him enough rope and he will hang himself.
On the issue of public votes; I don't see the evidence.
Firstly , I would suggest that in any poll in the UK where the demographic has access to the evidence and voting then they seem to make reasonable decisions. I don't always agree with the eventual winners of course but I can usually see enough merit in the order to be satisfied that mindless bias is not a huge factor.
I can't personally say I've seen any evidence of racism in such competition's.
It is time to explode the myth that the public can be trusted. Public opinion as expressed in mass polls is an embarrassment. On Strictly, the black people leave first then the serious stuff begins. The judges had to save the lovely Jamelia several times but the public still wouldn't have it, and poor old Ainsley went out weeks before that nice Jeremy Vine even though they could both dance him into oblivion. We got Cameron in the election. The Americans might go for Trump. Tyson Fury favourite for SPOTY now that there will probably be an anti-pc (anti what is right) backlash on social media. The BBC are good at leaving room for confusion between achievement and likeability aren't they? I don't know now whether the answer is a good dictator or (challengingly for me) The Establishment, which I have come to realise might have been saving us from ourselves all these years.
-- Edited by smiler on Wednesday 9th of December 2015 09:06:01 AM
Think you might have something there Smiler. The public certainly cant be trusted to vote wisely or vote at all in many cases and the non voters mainly come from the great unwashed rather than from the upper end of society. In most cases, they/we, fall for the marketing rather than the substance, the Meercats being a fine example, cute little furry animals dressed as humans speaking in an east european accent appeals mainly to children, women and old folk, the market is cornered. Santa in a red suit is another rather than green as dictated by Coca cola back in the 40's. It all depends who can present the best sound bites, looks good on telly and can fool most of the people most of the time.
A benign dictator could be the answer like a good parent taking care of children, but human nature being what it is its always open to corruption. Democracy? In my view true democracy does not exist. The Establishment have democracy sewn up really, in charge of government, military, policing, justice, decent health, high end education, media, secret service, even the church, and the Establishment will prevail. They decide who we 'elect' and if those at the bottom are caught looking up the full weight of the Establishment big guns are brought out so entice us to vote for what they want.
In the end, we're left with just enough jam on our bread to keep most of us reasonably happy with aspiration to get cake if we 'work hard', and then kept in fear of protesting or doing 'other' because we have mortgages and pensions we might lose.
