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Topic: The Falklands vs The Moon

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smiler
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The Falklands vs The Moon
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If we are morally entitled to own the Falklands, is the USA morally entitled to own the moon?  If the US was the first country to put people up there to live would those people have the moral right to self-determination?



-- Edited by smiler on Wednesday 2nd of December 2015 08:30:22 AM

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Towdlad
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The Frenchies were there in 1902 apparently, launched from a huge cannon, but I wouldn't see how the US could possibly deny any moonies independence otherwise we would still be in charge of them and could therefore lay claim to the moon ourselves

 

Moon_eye.jpg



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ian
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Good question and great first reply.

My initial thought is that the moon is off planet and as such is unique to earth exploration.

Secondly, it's not just about planting a flag but having a settlement and defining the actual territory.

Interesting. ..

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ian
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en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon_Treaty

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smiler
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There are treaties concerning space, the moon and other celestial objects in terms of exploitation and ownership. That is why my o/p is framed in terms of morality, not legality. The fact that nations have agreed not to claim ownership of the moon is interesting in itself. Whether that would be respected if we were running of of room or if we discovered that the moon is full of oil or something is another thing. The Antarctic might be a similar test. But the principle is the thing. My question is more about The Falklands than The Moon. I will put it differently. A nation is the first to colonise a land and afterwards relies on the principle of self determination knowing what the answer will be. Is that democratic or is it blatant manipulation? By the way, I agree with Towdlad about The Moon. The French clearly have the best claim there.

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ian
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However, colonisation is not the first principle that is universally applied.

The Native Americans and some of the Baltics are examples I can think of.

In terms of the Falklands it might be just as there was no pre colonisation peoples.

Indeed, Argentina was not even a Nation when the Islands were already well established diplomatic baggage between france, spain and england.

In that sense, the first colonisation was English but they didnt find the island or map the island first.

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smiler
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An interesting perspective Ian. Every situation will have its own peculiarities. If we were to follow this through we could get into the Northern Ireland situation, gerrymandering and beyond. Myself, I think the self-determination argument is a bit thin where the Falklands are concerned because it is a situation we have created - it is self-serving - and I am not convinced we would be quite so keen to tow that line if we weren't fairly sure there were big reserves of oil and/or gas around them. Just my view. Dangerous territory (no pun intended) I know. Mixing threads, I wouldn't put it past Trump to claim the moon for the States, treaty or no treaty. Judging by some of his views, I suspect he may be from another planet to start with.

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Heman
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I'm sure fleas argue about which of them owns the dog they live on. None of them do.



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ian
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but the dog can do **** all about them

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Heman
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Course he can. He can go swimming. Just like the general Belgrano.

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ian
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Fleas lay eggs. eggs dont drown.

Fleas will jump off dog and on to you or climb up onto and in ears and eye sockets, head, neck etc of the dog.

Besides all that they can survive for much longer than a dog can go under water for.

where does this leave the falklands...no idea, lol.


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Heman
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You mean the Malvinas right? Oh no - the Falklands sorry. It leaves them in the southern Atlantic being argued over by 2 fleas laying eggs.

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