Time is nearly up - Millers Banter: Unofficial Rotherham United Fans Forum / Message Board

Members Login

Topic: Time is nearly up

ian

Club Legend

Status: Offline

Posts: 6218

Date: Tue Nov 3 23:46 2015

Time is nearly up

I'm not one to post speculation and would not usually dream of undermining anyone at the club , so, I hope this is taken for what is on my mind and in my gut.

I have a strong feeling that Redfern is not the man for us at all. I hope I'm not speaking too hastily. However, there cannot be a serious fan who has not be baffled by his selections and performances. There can't be anyone that hadn't noticed the lack of direction and the lack of fight.

Why?

The thing is its no good saying it's not his team. It absolutely is his team now and it's performing much worse than we have seen. He is not the man for the job if he gets us relegated.

It's actually very short sighted to say if we go down its ok as he will bring us back stronger. This is utterly upside down thinking and anyone thinking this after the few games we had played when he was appointed must be oddly bias.

No, Redfern will have to go very soon if this carries on. Up to game 20 is what I would give him. It's enough time to prove you can do something. I don't want a lot but I do want to see something tangible taking place otherwise just how long does he get and how much damage are you prepared to take? Are there fans that would really allow him to stay in post in this carried on and we look certs for relegation

-- Edited by ian on Tuesday 3rd of November 2015 11:47:30 PM

__________________

oneaday

First Team

Status: Offline

Posts: 618

Date: Wed Nov 4 00:00 2015

After a terrible start to the season, which was mainly down to Roos, Evans turned it around and had us playing well and picking up points. Evans leaves and Black takes charge for a game and we did okay. What has happened since then is absurd.

Redfearn has tried different formations which resulted in poor performances and zero attempts on goal. He is now that desperate that he is dropping good players like Smallwood and picking players who are well past their best like Richardson.

I fear that Saturday could be crucial. A bad performance and a defeat and Stewart could well be sharpening his axe. Redfearn has turned is from an improving team into a pub league side in the space of a few weeks.

I just don't understand the logic in employing someone the age of Redfearn who hasn't achieved anything in management.

__________________

smiler

Testimonial

Status: Offline

Posts: 4501

Date: Wed Nov 4 01:09 2015

I couldn't disagree more. It is too simple to say that just because we won Evans last two games he had started to get us playing well. The first half against Cardiff was really poor. The game changed when they gifted us a penalty and the keeper was sent off, and we scraped home against ten men with the help of a last minute own goal. At Birmingham we played better but they were spent after a midweek cup tie at Villa while we were fresh. We threw points away in the early games against some poor teams. It was down to more than Roos. Evans signed 12 players close season and they have almost all proved to be really poor signings. After a handful of games many of his own signings had been discarded by him and he was asking TS to fund reinforcements. Evans left a shambles of a squad and went just before a really tough run of games. Burnley, Brentford away, Reading, Wednesday, Derby, Boro. It is very early days for Redfearn and I feel for him. He is trying to get what he can out of different combinations from what is a sub standard squad of players. He has little room for manouvre. Evans left us in a terrible state. We now have a relatively softer run of games coming up and if we are to stay up we obviously need to pick some points up soon, but it is a very difficult ask. I for one don't think for one minute that Evans would be doing any better right now and if we lost every game between now and the end of the season I wouldn't regret his departure.

__________________

BradtheMiller

Captain

Status: Offline

Posts: 2270

Date: Wed Nov 4 02:09 2015

smiler wrote:
I couldn't disagree more. It is too simple to say that just because we won Evans last two games he had started to get us playing well. The first half against Cardiff was really poor. The game changed when they gifted us a penalty and the keeper was sent off, and we scraped home against ten men with the help of a last minute own goal. At Birmingham we played better but they were spent after a midweek cup tie at Villa while we were fresh. We threw points away in the early games against some poor teams. It was down to more than Roos. Evans signed 12 players close season and they have almost all proved to be really poor signings. After a handful of games many of his own signings had been discarded by him and he was asking TS to fund reinforcements. Evans left a shambles of a squad and went just before a really tough run of games. Burnley, Brentford away, Reading, Wednesday, Derby, Boro. It is very early days for Redfearn and I feel for him. He is trying to get what he can out of different combinations from what is a sub standard squad of players. He has little room for manouvre. Evans left us in a terrible state. We now have a relatively softer run of games coming up and if we are to stay up we obviously need to pick some points up soon, but it is a very difficult ask. I for one don't think for one minute that Evans would be doing any better right now and if we lost every game between now and the end of the season I wouldn't regret his departure.

I couldn't agree more mate, well said!!!!

__________________

ian

Club Legend

Status: Offline

Posts: 6218

Date: Wed Nov 4 06:53 2015

It can't go on much longer...can it?

There seem to be several opinions about what we should accept as fans.

1. Not winning and dropping further behind is evidence he is the wrong choice based on that fact alone.we have seen this pattern at clubs before and it doesn't usually improve after such a poor start.

2. Based on opinions about the former manager any results are acceptable between now and the end of the season including a humiliating relegation.
3. It's not anything to do with the manager, it's purely down to financial issues.

4. We just need to add to the backroom staff and maybe sack warne, dibble, black , etc.

5. It's Toby Stewart fault for saying stupid things about midtable security and aiming for the prem.

6. It's Gee Evans fault.

__________________

hillsborough miller

Captain

Status: Offline

Posts: 2415

Date: Wed Nov 4 09:25 2015

BradtheMiller wrote:
smiler wrote:
I couldn't disagree more. It is too simple to say that just because we won Evans last two games he had started to get us playing well. The first half against Cardiff was really poor. The game changed when they gifted us a penalty and the keeper was sent off, and we scraped home against ten men with the help of a last minute own goal. At Birmingham we played better but they were spent after a midweek cup tie at Villa while we were fresh. We threw points away in the early games against some poor teams. It was down to more than Roos. Evans signed 12 players close season and they have almost all proved to be really poor signings. After a handful of games many of his own signings had been discarded by him and he was asking TS to fund reinforcements. Evans left a shambles of a squad and went just before a really tough run of games. Burnley, Brentford away, Reading, Wednesday, Derby, Boro. It is very early days for Redfearn and I feel for him. He is trying to get what he can out of different combinations from what is a sub standard squad of players. He has little room for manouvre. Evans left us in a terrible state. We now have a relatively softer run of games coming up and if we are to stay up we obviously need to pick some points up soon, but it is a very difficult ask. I for one don't think for one minute that Evans would be doing any better right now and if we lost every game between now and the end of the season I wouldn't regret his departure.
I couldn't agree more mate, well said!!!!

totally agree redders is still finding his feet and trying to make a good bunch out of the quality evans signed and i still belive we will be worse off. i belive evans should have gone at the end of last season

i am giving redders until january to sort it out if we get relegated we have more chance of coming with him than that self publising oaf

__________________

HM

Deuce

Youth Team

Status: Offline

Posts: 43

Date: Wed Nov 4 09:43 2015

BradtheMiller wrote:
smiler wrote:
I couldn't disagree more. It is too simple to say that just because we won Evans last two games he had started to get us playing well. The first half against Cardiff was really poor. The game changed when they gifted us a penalty and the keeper was sent off, and we scraped home against ten men with the help of a last minute own goal. At Birmingham we played better but they were spent after a midweek cup tie at Villa while we were fresh. We threw points away in the early games against some poor teams. It was down to more than Roos. Evans signed 12 players close season and they have almost all proved to be really poor signings. After a handful of games many of his own signings had been discarded by him and he was asking TS to fund reinforcements. Evans left a shambles of a squad and went just before a really tough run of games. Burnley, Brentford away, Reading, Wednesday, Derby, Boro. It is very early days for Redfearn and I feel for him. He is trying to get what he can out of different combinations from what is a sub standard squad of players. He has little room for manouvre. Evans left us in a terrible state. We now have a relatively softer run of games coming up and if we are to stay up we obviously need to pick some points up soon, but it is a very difficult ask. I for one don't think for one minute that Evans would be doing any better right now and if we lost every game between now and the end of the season I wouldn't regret his departure.
I couldn't agree more mate, well said!!!!

My sentiments precisely. There was an earlier thread about the Crawley fan who prophesied how Evens would leave us.........in the brown stuff, he's done just that. Many point out the two wins as evidence that Evans was turning things round, but forget the debacle of a start dropping points to teams who were no better than us. In my view, if we can look back and say there was a time where we lost the season, I would say the first 9 games.

Where I would agree with the thread is that the squad is now Redfearn's and I am bitterly disappointed that there has een no improvement, but having said that, you cant make a silk purse from a pigs ear.

__________________

smiler

Testimonial

Status: Offline

Posts: 4501

Date: Wed Nov 4 10:48 2015

A quick look at the league table, which is a fairly decent guide this many games in, will tell anyone who thinks about it that our early season failure to get more than a couple of points from games against MK Dons, Preston and Fulham at home and Forest, Charlton and possibly QPR away (we go 2 points from those six games against teams in the bottom half of the league) was a disaster. It was very obvious very early (even to him) that we were in bother. To blame Redfearn for having to take that squad on and not get results against the teams he has had to match up against is ridiculous. There is also a myth that Evans' teams had spirit and Redfearns don't. I saw no spirit against MK Dons and Fulham for example. We capitulated. I did see spirit against Burnley (under Black I know) and Reading, and apparently (though I didn't go) a fair amount of effort against Boro albeit without any cutting edge. It will take some time. He will be getting an idea who is up to it and who isn't up to it and hopefully he will make a fist of it, but there are limits to what he will be able to do between now and January. Everyone needs to get behind him and whoever he puts out on the pitch, and let's hope we can stay in the race until then.

-- Edited by smiler on Wednesday 4th of November 2015 10:50:06 AM

__________________

Heman

Vice-Captain

Status: Offline

Posts: 1000

Date: Wed Nov 4 11:18 2015

	Permalink
I don't want to be a fan of a club who has a manager recruitment structure of a revolving door. That is NOT the answer. __________________

ridgeway kid

Vice-Captain

Status: Offline

Posts: 1200

Date: Thu Nov 5 08:06 2015

smiler wrote:
I couldn't disagree more. It is too simple to say that just because we won Evans last two games he had started to get us playing well. The first half against Cardiff was really poor. The game changed when they gifted us a penalty and the keeper was sent off, and we scraped home against ten men with the help of a last minute own goal. At Birmingham we played better but they were spent after a midweek cup tie at Villa while we were fresh. We threw points away in the early games against some poor teams. It was down to more than Roos. Evans signed 12 players close season and they have almost all proved to be really poor signings. After a handful of games many of his own signings had been discarded by him and he was asking TS to fund reinforcements. Evans left a shambles of a squad and went just before a really tough run of games. Burnley, Brentford away, Reading, Wednesday, Derby, Boro. It is very early days for Redfearn and I feel for him. He is trying to get what he can out of different combinations from what is a sub standard squad of players. He has little room for manouvre. Evans left us in a terrible state. We now have a relatively softer run of games coming up and if we are to stay up we obviously need to pick some points up soon, but it is a very difficult ask. I for one don't think for one minute that Evans would be doing any better right now and if we lost every game between now and the end of the season I wouldn't regret his departure.

Smiler, please stop these sensible interventions as they are interfering with the construction of the "Steve Evans would have got us into the top half myth" and his only mistake (well, not a mistake really wink ) was Roos without whom we'd be in the top three.

__________________

ian

Club Legend

Status: Offline

Posts: 6218

Date: Thu Nov 5 10:33 2015

ridgeway kid wrote:
smiler wrote:
I couldn't disagree more. It is too simple to say that just because we won Evans last two games he had started to get us playing well. The first half against Cardiff was really poor. The game changed when they gifted us a penalty and the keeper was sent off, and we scraped home against ten men with the help of a last minute own goal. At Birmingham we played better but they were spent after a midweek cup tie at Villa while we were fresh. We threw points away in the early games against some poor teams. It was down to more than Roos. Evans signed 12 players close season and they have almost all proved to be really poor signings. After a handful of games many of his own signings had been discarded by him and he was asking TS to fund reinforcements. Evans left a shambles of a squad and went just before a really tough run of games. Burnley, Brentford away, Reading, Wednesday, Derby, Boro. It is very early days for Redfearn and I feel for him. He is trying to get what he can out of different combinations from what is a sub standard squad of players. He has little room for manouvre. Evans left us in a terrible state. We now have a relatively softer run of games coming up and if we are to stay up we obviously need to pick some points up soon, but it is a very difficult ask. I for one don't think for one minute that Evans would be doing any better right now and if we lost every game between now and the end of the season I wouldn't regret his departure.
Smiler, please stop these sensible interventions as they are interfering with the construction of the "Steve Evans would have got us into the top half myth" and his only mistake (well, not a mistake really) was Roos without whom we'd be in the top three.

Its quite clear that if you look at the footage one can see the team collapsing from the ground up. The theory that the team could come crashing down just because one Steve Evans (however big) overloaded the north west corner with some previously established championship players and one engine malfunction is clearly part of the wider neocon conspiracy that Tony Stewart and some of his agents have propagated on social media...even this site may be funded by 'the backroom staff' as a front to slowly change the agenda from certain facts.

This is all part of a wider policy that the fans have been too eager to lap up. Do you honestly think the new stadium was built just for football. Take a look at the historic maps and geography of the region and then tell me why steve evans was quietly and bizarrely sacked after 7 points from 12 and no failures on his CV.

You cant demolish success with a great manager. Deflation attracts investors. Thats all Im saying...Third Burglar will back me up on this im sure.

-- Edited by ian on Thursday 5th of November 2015 10:36:21 AM

__________________

ridgeway kid

Vice-Captain

Status: Offline

Posts: 1200

Date: Fri Nov 6 10:17 2015

Ian, you're dead right about the stadium. Believe.

Attachments

View image

__________________

gazmadmiller

First Team

Status: Offline

Posts: 758

Date: Fri Nov 6 15:45 2015

smiler wrote:
I couldn't disagree more. It is too simple to say that just because we won Evans last two games he had started to get us playing well. The first half against Cardiff was really poor. The game changed when they gifted us a penalty and the keeper was sent off, and we scraped home against ten men with the help of a last minute own goal. At Birmingham we played better but they were spent after a midweek cup tie at Villa while we were fresh. We threw points away in the early games against some poor teams. It was down to more than Roos. Evans signed 12 players close season and they have almost all proved to be really poor signings. After a handful of games many of his own signings had been discarded by him and he was asking TS to fund reinforcements. Evans left a shambles of a squad and went just before a really tough run of games. Burnley, Brentford away, Reading, Wednesday, Derby, Boro. It is very early days for Redfearn and I feel for him. He is trying to get what he can out of different combinations from what is a sub standard squad of players. He has little room for manouvre. Evans left us in a terrible state. We now have a relatively softer run of games coming up and if we are to stay up we obviously need to pick some points up soon, but it is a very difficult ask. I for one don't think for one minute that Evans would be doing any better right now and if we lost every game between now and the end of the season I wouldn't regret his departure.

Smiler - well said i have seen quotes of Evans 1 point in 12 being compared to Redferns 1 point in twelve. Redferns games have been played against top 6 sides pushing for promotion before the season started. Evans games however were against sides we should at least have competed against or at least competed against. Give NR time to get a "decent" sqauad together not one cobbled up from who we could get when we could get em. Oh N make F'kin sure we sign Rawson before the fat man gets his greasy's on him in January

__________________

Fliker

First Team

Status: Offline

Posts: 575

Date: Fri Nov 6 18:26 2015

Perhaps just perhaps reders has had to sacrifice the first half a dozen games, knowing the oppersition and thinking we wouldn't get many points anyway, so that he could look at different combinations and team shape and evaluate what we need. That been done we come now to winnable games, he starts to bring players in and get points on the board. I'm sure we will learne more in the next 4-5 games. Let's hope he's that clever.

__________________

Andy Monium

Vice-Captain

Status: Offline

Posts: 1780

Date: Fri Nov 6 23:08 2015

	Permalink
__________________

ian

Club Legend

Status: Offline

Posts: 6218

Date: Sat Nov 7 01:56 2015

	Permalink
Lol andy. Also, Flicker, loving the idea of Redders incredible intelligence. I'm in awe. If he ain't, and he gets the sack , I'm going to encourage you to apply for the millers vacant post. José , stand aside, the new special one has come. __________________

WorcesterMiller

Vice-Captain

Status: Offline

Posts: 1138

Date: Sat Nov 7 21:14 2015

Fliker wrote:
Perhaps just perhaps reders has had to sacrifice the first half a dozen games, knowing the oppersition and thinking we wouldn't get many points anyway, so that he could look at different combinations and team shape and evaluate what we need. That been done we come now to winnable games, he starts to bring players in and get points on the board. I'm sure we will learne more in the next 4-5 games. Let's hope he's that clever.

So next winnable game, Bristol City ??? cant see us winning at Leeds.

If we do then we scrape into Double figures just before December. Wow, Lg1 here we come.

I know i am stating the obvious, but i dont think he has a clue.

We have no money, until at least January, then if the current form continues, we are as good as down.

Sod expansion, premier League (joke or what), we need intervention now, not in 4 or 5 games time.

Experiment with green for 3 games??? We knew, before Redders came - Green was past it.

So bring a kid in, good goal btw, but to not start smallwood, JCH or Newall is suicidal.

Glad we dont have a match for a couple of weeks. this result is going to take some getting over.

__________________

ian

Club Legend

Status: Offline

Posts: 6218

Date: Sun Jan 31 21:39 2016

ok then and a big intake of breath.

My sentiments have changed and I am prepared to give Redfern till the end of the season-we have come too far now, but the results havent changed. The overall ability and direction of the team is definitely shifting now and we can see the difference between an Evans team and a Redfern team. Lets be honest both have produced some very good displays of attacking football and both have got the best out of certain players. What makes the difference then? Im not putting too much value to this but I think Redfern will ultimately build a much more solid and balanced side then Evans would. It wont be as exciting but it will be a more traditional team. Its very clear to me that if Redfern is going to prosper then he will need to stay up this year and it will take him much longer to build a team than Evans and perhaps some other managers. By this , I mean that Redfern is not a tinker, tailor...,he is a serious football mind and he wont go for a quick vision. This may end up positive or negative-thats up to the board to keep the faith if we go down and stay down for a few seasons.

In one sense then he is a massive gamble because the board will have to be very patient if we get relegated. If we stay up then I think he will stand a very good chance of being able to build a non-relegation team next season.

But, We are here in January now, with many suggesting he would have done enough by now to earn our trust and others saying wait until the window. Has he actually earned your trust by now? The results havent materialised!

Granted we haven't seen what the 3 new lads will do to the team yet, but , im wondering, are we more optimistic of staying up now than when Redfern was appointed. I am much less so, but, I am also much happier thinking if we can then the medium term is brighter. This is a much bigger season than just staying up or getting relegated. Its going to set the scene for several years. The board now has to stick with him even if we go down. And, it may take Redfern 2-3 seasons to produce his very best.

-- Edited by ian on Sunday 31st of January 2016 09:46:49 PM

__________________

Exetermiller

Moderator

Status: Offline

Posts: 2408

Date: Sun Jan 31 23:18 2016

I'm not one for sacking management without giving them the required time. Redfearn needs a summer transfer window and should be given until xmas 2016 to allow them to gel / take his ideas on board etc. What concerns me is what those ideas are as Saturday for me was perhaps the most bizarre decision making I can remember in quite a while.

1. The outright insistence that Danny Ward is a number 9, never has and never will be.
2. 4-2-3-1 is a counter attacking formation that is utilised a lot away from home. While that is fair enough, statistically this season its failing big time. There is no justification to carry on doing this, its no good saying the performances are good (subjective), what we need is points. Playing this on our home patch where we need to get in opposition faces is lunacy, if we do not drop this I'll stick my neck out and say we will not win away for the rest of the season.
3. Someone please explain when chasing a game you take off Burke AND Newell. These 2 guys if given the license to play in the right areas can rip up defences in this league.
4. Grant Ward, I fail to see the love in on this either - whoever cant see that Green, Smallwood and Ward in the middle is our weakest link should go to Specsavers
5. We need a player at the top the ball will stick with. If Best gets fit and stays fit we'll stay up, its as simple as that.
6. Why are we shat scared of everyone, why do we not go for it and load the final 3rd, oh yeah I remember 4-2-3-1, the 2 in the middle refuse to go within 40 yards of goal leaving 4 players to attack with, and more often than not they're closer to the 2 than the 1 up top

__________________

FA Licensed Coach & Referee

ian

Club Legend

Status: Offline

Posts: 6218

Date: Mon Feb 1 06:54 2016

I agree with your entire perspective Exeter on this and previous posts tactically. In contrast to Redder's, this is what makes Evans a good manager. He is currently on a higher win rate than Redfern at Leeds. That is a fair comparison.

One can see why Revell was so important but also so much of a problem. Evans tried desperately to sort out the midfield but despite signing loads of midfielders couldn't quite crack it. He used what was best in the best way. Pringle overlapping or able to deliver a ball behind the defence from deep with Revell high to create the 2 options of holding the ball and creating space for frecklington and the deeper midfield to advance into and then peeling off into the box and so on. The more containing type players then sustain an attack. Redfern hasn't got this option but I reckon he would play it if he did. As well as always having one really weak link in The defence we are conceeding because we can't make the ball stick long enough in midfield. It's a mess still. This is why taking newall and Burke off was a little odd. It was desperate tactics but it just made it a little worse I think.

__________________