Does anyone worry as much as I do about the level of political debate in the US? The lack of serious discussion combined with the lack of appetite or understanding of the American electorate is such that Donald Trump is a serious contender. That being the case we really have got problems. It is the Americans' business who they elect to lead them, but the consequences of that choice could be far reaching. Heaven help us.
The thing that worries me is the way our politics is going the same way, all shine and no substance, look at the way Corbyn is getting treat by the media because he doesn't have 'the look' and shiny suits.
it has always worried me but in truth its just the nutty republican element.
Bernie sanders seems ok and Hilary is no doubt an astute politician and would probably be a good president. In fact Id have both of them as a UK leader.
The Republicans are a very unusual bunch. Im not sure there equivalent exists in the UK, certainly not in the numbers they do in the US.
Then again, US society is strange to me and if it wasnt for some good comedy and the odd film Id be thinking they all were Aliens-so different from us little Englanders are they!
Fox news is simply remarkable but other media outlets are much better. Its that there exists such a stark contrast btw the candidates and the debating in the The House and at local legislative level (lower house). I think in some ways US politics is far more sophisticated than in Europe and reflects much more opinion and debate. However, on a national scale it is crass. How these two things coexist is odd.
I wonder if its simply that the middle class is not quite as strong and cohesive as in Europe and likewise there exists extremes of poverty and disengagement in the US that we cant comprehend. Lets fact it, the US is a land of extremes.
If you read the new york times and Journal and other major nationals (washington post is my fave) like the Chicago tribune and USA today you find a level of engagement I dont think we have compared to the Guardian, Times, Independent...I also think the BBC is way lacking compared to CNN. There are loads of very well funded and supported independent journals like The American prospect and great arts and **** in the Boston Review and its sister in washington. All in ALL there is some real culture and intelligence under the surface of the brash politics of the American tabloids. As in the UK however, the majority of the electorate dont want to be bothered with appreciation of a wider society and perspective and hence we get a black and white Agenda and numptys for candidates (lol)
I enjoyed your post Ian. I am interested in American politics. I recently read Arguably - a collection of essays on American culture and politics by Christopher Hitchens. It amounts to a fascinating critique of the largest free market economy in the world by a self proclaimed Marxist. The fact that Hitchens - a Marxist Englishman who took American citizenship - was hugely respected in the US as a journalist is itself fascinating. There is a strong liberal culture in the US that is seen in some quite mainstream media including some of the newspapers that you mention. In the end though the electorate invariably get a choice between the acceptable right and the lunatic right, because the system requires that candidates be sponsored by big business or the Christian militia (or both). The fact that Bernie Sanders isn't Hilary Clinton makes him preferable in my view, and there is no one in the Republican race who doesn't scare the pants off me!
Hitchens is a legend and a shame he is no longer with us. but seeing that they struggle to get a 50% turn out for elections the question around be a true democracy has to be raised. You have to have millions if not billions to gain the Presidency.
I enjoyed your post Ian. I am interested in American politics. I recently read Arguably - a collection of essays on American culture and politics by Christopher Hitchens. It amounts to a fascinating critique of the largest free market economy in the world by a self proclaimed Marxist. The fact that Hitchens - a Marxist Englishman who took American citizenship - was hugely respected in the US as a journalist is itself fascinating. There is a strong liberal culture in the US that is seen in some quite mainstream media including some of the newspapers that you mention. In the end though the electorate invariably get a choice between the acceptable right and the lunatic right, because the system requires that candidates be sponsored by big business or the Christian militia (or both). The fact that Bernie Sanders isn't Hilary Clinton makes him preferable in my view, and there is no one in the Republican race who doesn't scare the pants off me!
It was a massive shift for C. Hitchens and one George Galloway would never let him forget.
Interestingly, His brother, Peter Hitchens, also had an epiphany and switched his atheism to become a staunch Christian .
Here is a rather beautiful account-surprisingly from the mail-about the relationship btw them both and Peters faith.
Reviving this after seeing Trump's latest triumph. At a rally he was attacking the credibility of a newspaper reporter who he doesn't like and he did an impression of him. The reporter has a disability that manifests itself in limited joint movements in his arms. Trump mimicked him by imitating the unusual arm movements. He wants to build a wall along the Mexican border because Mexicans are (amongst other things) rapists. I could go on. The man is very, very dangerous. He isn't fit to run anything, let alone a country. Wake up America! He is a couple of short steps from being President!
The thing that gets me about my response is that I like him to an extent.
I think that because politics has become so muddied almost everywhere its difficult to apply normal standards of behaviour. Clearly, I am not alone as up to half of Americans may feel the same about him.
The world through the eyes of America is often a dangerous world that requires brute force in order not to get totally ****** over by others. Everyone hates us and is out to get us has become a self fulfilling prophecy. In this context Americans will always elect a strong leader even if he is clearly unfit from a normal and Human perspective. The democrats have Psycho Hilary and the Republicans have just about anyone thats a Republican.
So, he is a Joker, and doesnt pander to the worst bits of modern sensibilities, but of course he goes way to far. But, does he go to far as to make him unelectable in terms of what America feels they and the world continue to need?
The American world is built of Brinkmanship and risk taking. It matters little how often Trump ****s up because there is always someone in the system willing to support him in politics and business. Its the American dream.
Cameron and Holland and Merkel may look like people we can trust but clearly they aint. They are just very good at managing the hypocrisy. Thats another reason for the Trump Phenomena. He can be trusted and be likeable because he is so damn ridiculously honest and will tell you to your face. Thats refreshing and authentic.
I would much prefer to have Trump as my mate than any British or European politician . Thats a fact
Honesty is fine but when that honesty betrays the fact that you are insensitive, racist, sexist, a bully, a xenophobe, have no idea at all about important matters of state and are prepared to make things up as you go along you really are or at least should be completely unelectable. Hitler was fairly honest and was also fairly popular, but he was a lunatic, and I wouldn't have wanted him as my mate. Trump in charge of what is still one of the most powerful nations on earth is a terrifying prospect. The fact that people are prepared to vote for him is no less terrifying.
America doesn't see the world as we do, we still owe them for WW2 apparently, they are very narrow minded, and why travel abroad, when you have it all in your own country.
Resort to battlefield when trying to resolve a situation, they never learn, we never learn.
And for all the bluster that trump is at the moment the POTUS vote is not until next year, a lot can happen in a year, i should know.
So yes he's headline grabbing at the moment, but for how long. Life is a marathon not a sprint.
I'm not exactly sure that Trump is all of those things. He could be very insensitive to many issues but no more so than Bush, Reagan, Truman, nixon...putin, breshnev, krutchev. ..numerous Italian, Spanish and even French leaders of modern times. No to meniton Chinese leadership.
Trump is electable which is all the republicans and the financiers want.
I dont think he is anything like a Hitler figure. Hitler was deeply ideological from a young man onwards. He was deeply apolitical and anarchistic. He believed without doubt in supremacy and made no secret of his absolute solution from the beginning.
Trump is less like Hitler than most politicians I can mention including these above. To be dangerous you have to be a true psychopath and Trump has none of those traits. He is more Boris Johnson than Boris karloff.
Ian, he said that Mexicans should be kept out of the US because they are rapists. When a female interviewer pressed him on a difficult subject he tried to discredit her by saying she must have been on a period ('you could almost see the blood coming out of her eyes'). Now he has publicly mocked the disability of a journalist just because the disabled journalist doesn't agree with him. How can you excuse or justify any of that?
Ian, he thinks that Mexicans should be kept out of the US because they are rapists. When a female interviewer pressed him on a difficult subject he tried to discredit her by saying she must have been on a period ('you could almost see the blood coming out of her eyes'). Now he has publicly mocked the disability of a journalist just because the disabled journalist doesn't agree with him. How can you excuse or justify any of that? How can you trust the judgment of a man who thinks it is acceptable to say or do those things?
Ian, he thinks that Mexicans should be kept out of the US because they are rapists. When a female interviewer pressed him on a difficult subject he tried to discredit her by saying she must have been on a period ('you could almost see the blood coming out of her eyes'). Now he has publicly mocked the disability of a journalist just because the disabled journalist doesn't agree with him. How can you excuse or justify any of that? How can you trust the judgment of a man who thinks it is acceptable to say or do those things?
Because he is a buffon. I haven't excused his prejudice or rudeness. I am merely drawing attention to the fact he had a lot of public support and unless they are all idiots they must be seeing other issues at stake.
For a republican like a democrat or socialist it is better to have your man than the oppositions man. After all, this is the current debate in the labour party. Without doubt the current leader is labour through and through but many want a candidate that they think is electable.
Trump is just an electable figure. As such although he is a moron on many levels he is not particularly dangerous. Waging war in Iraq twice, Afghanistan, trade wars and provocation towards the Chinese and a refusal to cooperate with Russia and the whole homeland security and freedom debate are things he would wold not support .
Trump would actually be more moderate than most republicans and Democrats on these issues because he is concerned with inward looking and less with ruling the world be conquest. This is a fairly clear part of his direction.
You asked me how I can say such things but I think they are fairly well thought out observations. Trump may have said rude and unacceptable things but you compared him to Hitler. I'm not saying this to he antagonistic but merely pointing out that what we are angry about or blind to does not necessarily mean we should be totally written off as being good and indeed excellent in some areas.
A local politician where I live has just been barred from the tory party and lost his job after 40 years of service for tweeting a picture of an Asian politician by a corner shop. Of course it's offensive and insensitive but is it so all or nothing that he should lose his job? I would have thought that mediation and good faith should not be beyond very intelligent and peaceful people. Ifx we are going to judge others we better use the same rule for those we love and support and toward ourselves too.
I'm a pragmatist and if Trump has the support of a majority in a democratic process then who am I to say they are absolutely wrong. Context is everything.
The Democrats have broken promise after promise as well as doing some great things .If it's time for another republican them pragmatically Trump may be the best Republican for the job. However, I dont think for one minute the president is really an executive position.
Who we are personally should not always be a judge of our ability and worth to larger causes.
I'm thinking Churchill.
I'm thinking many a dead soldier.
I'm thinking the psychopath in the social forces.
Spies.
Hard nosed politicians dealing with real dangerous countries and individuals.
It's no picnic at the top and as much as I hate the whole game our society has chosen this form of representation : the hard and strong and powerful represent the many.
Trump, just because of his lack of political correctness is no more corrupt than Obama. Of that I am certain.
-- Edited by ian on Thursday 26th of November 2015 09:09:24 PM
