Sorry Towd Lad but it was more complex than that and not comparible at all. Hitler was a murderous madman who was driven by a racist agenda. In fact he wanted to control the world and not just Europe. Comparing what is happening today to the current situation in the E.U. is insulting and nonsensical. Germany dominate the EU because they have had the strongest economy, so in a way we should expect that. We didn't fight the Germans in WW2 we fought the Nazis.
Hope I didn't get the wrong end of the stick, sickly. I meant it tongue in cheek. I dont mean to belittle those events.
For what its worth my old dad when at the age of 14 was rounded up like millions of others in Poland at that time, and taken to Germany as slave labour. He did a runner in 1944, making his way mainly on foot to Italy and joined the Polish 2nd Corps under the British 8th Army. Quite an adventure and a long story, but he ended up in England in 1947 where he was demobed, met my mother and here I am. My father never saw his family or what was left of it, until I took him back to the village a few years back. So I am well versed in the historical background, complexities and the horrors of WW2, which had a great impact on my family.
Don't apologise to Sickly, Towdlad. He just gets stroppy sometimes - usually after they've experienced aftershocks on his sheepfarm. Can't be easy living upside down after all. Btw, an interesting account of your father.
No need to apologise thought I was back on MM. Full respect to your family and anyone who survived that nightmare. Though ironic that we went to war for Poland and then meekly allowed another murdering madman to occupy it. I think it was a shameful moment in our history and a betrayal to brave Poles to allow the Soviets to occupy. A great book called Rising 44 by Norman Davies is a fantastic and moving account of the Polish uprising.
No need to apologise thought I was back on MM. Full respect to your family and anyone who survived that nightmare. Though ironic that we went to war for Poland and then meekly allowed another murdering madman to occupy it. I think it was a shameful moment in our history and a betrayal to brave Poles to allow the Soviets to occupy. A great book called Rising 44 by Norman Davies is a fantastic and moving account of the Polish uprising.
Churchill spotted the danger from quite early as the tide turned on the Eastern Front and he did his damnest to secure an agreement on Polish democracy. Roosevelt and the Americans just couldn't see it and thought "Uncle Joe" could be trusted. Churchill and the Brits never wanted a second front in France but argued for an expansion of the Italian campaign and a strike through the Balkans to grab parts of eastern europe before the Reds.
OK fellas, no harm done, but thats the main problem with message boards like this. When you talk face to face and the banter flows, you hear the words and how they are said, its easy to understand the meaning and intention. When the you just read the words, the intention can sometimes be lost and I do have a wry and often cynical sense of humour.
BTW sickly, I have the book, Rising 44, which is a very in depth account of the battle for Warsaw and how they were egged on by the Ruskies to take up arms against the Nazis, then from the eastern side of the Vistula river, sat back and watched them take on the SS with home made weapons and captured arms. It was only meant to last a few days , but they held out until the end of September, some escaping through the sewers. I had an aunt who survived the event living in an the Wola area of Warsaw at the time, she died only last year aged 97, but not before I had the chance to reunite dad with his sister a few years ago.
Sorry Towd Lad but it was more complex than that and not comparible at all. Hitler was a murderous madman who was driven by a racist agenda. In fact he wanted to control the world and not just Europe. Comparing what is happening today to the current situation in the E.U. is insulting and nonsensical. Germany dominate the EU because they have had the strongest economy, so in a way we should expect that. We didn't fight the Germans in WW2 we fought the Nazis.
Hope I didn't get the wrong end of the stick, sickly. I meant it tongue in cheek. I dont mean to belittle those events.
For what its worth my old dad when at the age of 14 was rounded up like millions of others in Poland at that time, and taken to Germany as slave labour. He did a runner in 1944, making his way mainly on foot to Italy and joined the Polish 2nd Corps under the British 8th Army. Quite an adventure and a long story, but he ended up in England in 1947 where he was demobed, met my mother and here I am. My father never saw his family or what was left of it, until I took him back to the village a few years back. So I am well versed in the historical background, complexities and the horrors of WW2, which had a great impact on my family.
Don't apologise to Sickly, Towdlad. He just gets stroppy sometimes - usually after they've experienced aftershocks on his sheepfarm. Can't be easy living upside down after all. Btw, an interesting account of your father.
But was that the reason we were fighting. Didn't we fight because we were probably next and the alliances we had to live up to.
Wasn't it also true that we didn't know about the atrocities until liberation. Certainly, the world at war series suggests this with letters and film sent back saying ' this is what we were fighting for after all'.
You are right Ian, but the Poles were severely let down, the invasion of Poland was our reason for declaring war and we let them be invaded to end it. If you were a Pole you would have felt abandoned and they were.
Fascinating stuff TL I would have loved to have spoken to your Aunt, 97? tough as.
You are right Ian, but the Poles were severely let down, the invasion of Poland was our reason for declaring war and we let them be invaded to end it. If you were a Pole you would have felt abandoned and they were. Fascinating stuff TL I would have loved to have spoken to your Aunt, 97? tough as.
Quite a good Polish movie made in 2013 called Tajemnica Westerplatte about the german invasion in 1939. There's a scene where the Polish garrison hear that Britain and France have declared war and assume Poland is saved. Oh dear.
The 'Free Polish' army thought they were fighting to free their homeland as well as fighting the Nazis. Thats why my dad made his way to Italy to join them as he thought it was his best chance of getting home.
When their leader, General Anders, discovered the truth about the Yalta Agreement, he is reported to have asked how he could now expect his Poles to continue fighting, he hesitated for a moment, then announced that the Poles would fight on to ...." destroy Hitler first". My dads unit took the final assault at the battle of Monte Cassino.
Most of the Poles gave the Germans no quarter. The jerries were afraid of the Poles because most had lost their entire families and had nothing left to lose. They were not afraid to die and were sadistic in their revenge.
Shortly after the war, German POWs were making life hell in their camp for the British guards. The committed Nazis and SS among them were trying to carry on the war from the camp, holding kangaroo courts and hanging those who would no longer toe the party line. The British just could not control them, so they sent in the Poles................all they had to do was be there, plus one or two cut throat gestures, that was enough to quell the rebellion.
BTW, how can you tell its a pole............theres telephone wires hanging off em
