Its strange how the media can galvanise a nation into adopting policies that would otherwise be considered risky and potentially unpopular. The photo of a drowned child will stir the compassion in any decent human being, however it seems we are selective in which child we have compassion for.
We accept the deaths of hundreds if not thousands of children when we invade Iraq, shrug our shoulders and call it collateral damage. We dont care if a drone kills wedding guests including children in Afghanistan, we say 'oops' and 'sorry'. Children are amongst those blasted to
hell in that open air prison camp known as Gaza, ah, but they are Palestinian children, for Palestinian read Hezbolla for hezbolla read terrorism, so they deserve being blown to smitherines, who cares! We do nothing for child casualties of Saudi Arabia's relentless 21st century bombardment of 3rd world Yemen because Saudi are our friends and only doing the same as we do. But one small child drowned....... media mania. Hypocrites of the highest order.
Has anyone considered that the exodus of Syrians may be a deliberate policy of Isis to ethnically cleanse, and cause economic and social chaos by flooding Europe with refugees, the Nazis did it the Sudaten Land in the late 1930's. Finally Since 'Lord' Hague of Wath was instrumental in the initial uprising in Syria by sending, I believe it was £10 million of tax payers money to the rebels to buy arms, and who I heard recently on Radio 4, claiming that Libya was now in a better position to move on and people happier because they now had "Democracy". Well since he is so magnanimous I suppose he could offer Syrian refugees a place in his large Welsh farmhouse with acres of land, I'm sure there is enough room for two or three families. Watch this space
Its strange how the media can galvanise a nation into adopting policies that would otherwise be considered risky and potentially unpopular. The photo of a drowned child will stir the compassion in any decent human being, however it seems we are selective in which child we have compassion for.
We accept the deaths of hundreds if not thousands of children when we invade Iraq, shrug our shoulders and call it collateral damage. We dont care if a drone kills wedding guests including children in Afghanistan, we say 'oops' and 'sorry'. Children are amongst those blasted to hell in that open air prison camp known as Gaza, ah, but they are Palestinian children, for Palestinian read Hezbolla for hezbolla read terrorism, so they deserve being blown to smitherines, who cares! We do nothing for child casualties of Saudi Arabia's relentless 21st century bombardment of 3rd world Yemen because Saudi are our friends and only doing the same as we do. But one small child drowned....... media mania. Hypocrites of the highest order.
Has anyone considered that the exodus of Syrians may be a deliberate policy of Isis to ethnically cleanse, and cause economic and social chaos by flooding Europe with refugees, the Nazis did it the Sudaten Land in the late 1930's. Finally Since 'Lord' Hague of Wath was instrumental in the initial uprising in Syria by sending, I believe it was £10 million of tax payers money to the rebels to buy arms, and who I heard recently on Radio 4, claiming that Libya was now in a better position to move on and people happier because they now had "Democracy". Well since he is so magnanimous I suppose he could offer Syrian refugees a place in his large Welsh farmhouse with acres of land, I'm sure there is enough room for two or three families. Watch this space
These are very good points. Did people not appreciate people (including children) were dying before seeing this photograph? The media has now (temporarily) chosen a direction to lead us all in. This morning the BBC commentator on the migrants moving from Hungary to Austria made no mention of the chanting and stone throwing young men but mentioned "The mother weeping and hopeless, at her feet her exhausted child clutched his teddy bear..." WE ARE BEING MANIPULATED.
-- Edited by ridgeway kid on Saturday 5th of September 2015 10:54:27 AM
The answer to the refugee problem is to not be too afraid.
One shouldn't exaggerate.
On the one hand many seekers are not in mortal danger. On the other hand, however many seekers are welcomed to this country it won't make much difference to out culture, lifestyle, health system, economy and wellbeing.
The only way it can hurt is through fear.
It will all be ok with merry old England-thank goodness -and plenty of new people will have a happier life.
-- Edited by ian on Friday 4th of September 2015 11:51:56 PM
Surely, it's a question of numbers combined with the willingness/ability to integrate, Ian? I was at a lecture given by a liberal acdemic and he reckoned migration posed the biggest threat to Europe since WW2. He also said if global warming impacted on climate and agriculture in Africa, the Middle East and southern Europe as some predict you could be looking at half a billion people moving north. Even Bob Geldof might struggle to house that lot.
I agree Ridgeway. I heard the same report myself and thought the same. I don't like thinking like this, seeing people suffer, but you cant put a quart in a pint pot. This is only a tiny island, remove Scotland and Wales from the equation and England is a very, very small place in comparison to other European countries. The population has grown in the last 10 years from 60 million to 68 million, where will they live, there is a shortage of homes, they will need health care when there arnt enough GPs and hospital beds already, their kids will need educating when the classes are already too large, where will they work. The knock on effect on the country by an increase in consumption by the extra 8 million, of gas, electricity, water and the production of waste, extra traffic on roads, every aspect of our lives will be effected..............Except for those in power who make the decisions and reside in open country, like the Cotswolds and the wide open spaces of the Welsh borders
im not trying to quash good and exciting debate, but on the other hand I think its important to look at available trends and evidence.
In the UK we have a strong border. A few hundred might get in per annum without process, but the control otherwise is tight. Throughou the post war years we have had numerous cycles of immigration.
west indians Polish-polish again Indians Pakistans Bangladesh
Afgans Iraquis Kurds
small numbers from Africa and iran...
somalians eritrea
and on...
current numbers are controlled, so there can be no huge amount of numbers coming to swamp the island.
I live in a very white middle class village of approximately 10,000 and our health system is just as much under-strain as the inner citys where I use to live and work.
I was a trauma therapist for several years in the west midlands from 2002 onwards.
I provided therapy and reports for asylum seekers for many years and attending court as a witness.
Those in receipt of health care and those not were all very genuine people from every part of the globe. Iranians and syrians were a large part of this community 13 years ago. Those from iran and syria were mostly middle class from scientific, legal and industrial professions who had been interrogated, tortured and generally hounded.
The Afgans and kurds and the eastern europeans were often fleeing life threatening conditions and vicariously traumatised by all the rape, killing and torture of men, women and children.
The Africans were invariable fleeing from very factional and broken countries were the most horrendous atrocities had been committed against them and their loved ones.
The picture of the poor child on the beach is not really exceptional as has been pointed out. The UK has been rescuing many like this little boy for years and years and of course we cant rescue everyone. The thing is thought , we, the UK are not in danger of any material loss to out futures, in any respect whatsoever. Our housing, healthcare, economy, choice based society will not wax and wane under the influence of the numbers of migrants. They are tightly controlled and by and large pose no more of a threat or burden to the UK and communities than do any persons here for many years.
We need not be so defensive simply because nothing will actually happen to us and the UK will go on much the same as it has for the last 60 years.
The real impact on the UK is the destruction of healthcare and economic equality from within. Our very own people have presided over such enormous heath and social inequalities it beggars belief.
Our very own children and now those brought and born here can be subject to such regional inequalities that there is as much as a 30 years difference in life expectancy and such huge gaps in quality of daily living as to be the most obvious and scandalous abuse since the Victorian era.
Asylum and immigration pose no threat to the country at all. Our lives will go on as usual.
The materialistic and soulless political will , alongside the appalling media and uneducated pockets of society, do however, pose a most instant, and chronic impact on our daily living and futures.
The evidence has been here for decades and indeed centuries.
-- Edited by ian on Saturday 5th of September 2015 12:41:02 PM
Ian, I agree with much of what you say. My OP was, however, about Europe as a whole and I think migration does represent a very real threat. This will inevitably have security and economic implications for the UK.
I'm in agreement with most on here, this is a sensible debate with many valid points. I'd like to throw one in though, regarding Germany, is Germany still suffering from the 'guilt' of Hitler et al and taking the extra thousnds in because of it, wanting atonement? I don't really know German popular opinion, surely they're gunna feel a backlash, also?
And a majority came to leicester and became very prosperous,and now many of the alumni contribute significantly to the arts and education plus local jobs.
I'm in agreement with most on here, this is a sensible debate with many valid points. I'd like to throw one in though, regarding Germany, is Germany still suffering from the 'guilt' of Hitler et al and taking the extra thousnds in because of it, wanting atonement? I don't really know German popular opinion, surely they're gunna feel a backlash, also?
Shame is not far from pride.
The Germans seemed to be deeply motivated by both.
Both world wars were signs of a deep split in the psyche of the German people. It's never far from the surface. The punishment from both wars was deep and many thought to extreme. Many wise people wanted to save us from a backlash. Of course the reunification though difficult was healing for many
Perhaps they are truly trying to bury their shame but it can't work of course.
There is a small matter of economic growth too. Most project tons for the next 30 yrs suggest population growth will be the main factor in economic growth. The UK is forcast to become much stronger by many over this period but only if the population continues to grow.
Fact is we have way too many people for the world to sustain, in the animal kingdom mother nature intervenes when populations get out of control. We are heading for dark times.
Fact is we have way too many people for the world to sustain, in the animal kingdom mother nature intervenes when populations get out of control. We are heading for dark times.
I agree, unfortunatley Sickly, because at some point in the future, this planet will undergo another life changing event, be it a mahooosive volcano eruption, mahoosive meteor strike, nuclear war etc etc, these things are inevitable, it's just a matter of when and where. It's been proven over the millions of years of Earth history.
Maybe yeh Sickly, they're already positioning themselves military wise, look at the recent Chinese parade, no coincidence that they're showing their might, and they have a hand in many countries across the world re-oil etc.
