I didn’t expect us to come up last year.. and I had one of the best weekends of my life at the playoffs in London.
With the money we spent (or rather didn’t) this year, we could have been Ipswich, and nobody could argue.
BUT… we are nearly good enough to stay up, and we might (hopefully) do so
BUT.. if we do go down, we have a core team that is nearly good enough for the Championship, and I assume we will sell one or all of Semi, Smith or Vaulks… which in league 1 will give us competitive funds… and a fair chance of a good season next year.
So, either way I’m already looking fwd to next season.
Watched highlights. Two plusses. Newell on the left looks at last to have found some form. Finally saw Williams on the right. That's how it should be till the end of the season.
Minuses. Giving Wood a two year contract. Giving a player Proctor not recovered from a serious injury a longer contract. Crooks signing, hardly a league one player. Warney being made to look like Teresa May, not having the b*lls to stand up to the dictator.
I'll be there next season. Taylor & Forde shouldn't. 3 seasons we've had them not doing what they were brought to the club to be, wingers.
It could be alot worse. We are still here. Got Grand National to study. Judd Trump to finally become world snooker champion.
That is impressive gwru - all your favourite one liners in a single short post! The response to yesterday is illuminating. It is funny how we all have our own opinions/agendas where the chairman, manager and certain players are concerned and how a bad defeat can be used to conveniently fit our own views. Example - people who laud Wood when we win conspicuously fail to mention him when we ship six goals. Some will point to Vaulks being absent although we were excellent twice without him. Wiles is the wonderkid one week and garbage this week. Its all because they've had some time off while Warney has bought his mates (the players) ****tails and rubbed the sun tan lotion in for them. Or (if you prefer) we were deprived of key players and Warne isn't at fault at all. Take your pick. We all care about our team and passions run high, but we over react to good results and bad alike and all know better than the manager in any event. If we win its because he listened to our cherry picked pearls of wisdom. If we lose its because he didn't. Actually none of us would pick the same players or formation as each other. We can't all be right. But its a modern phenomenon that we all think we are and are going to use a platform like this to shout about it. My own view - take a step back and look at the big picture - whether we go down or stop up we aren't in bad shape, yesterdays hammering notwithstanding. But I'm as guilty as everybody else of thinking that I'm the only one who is right.
I think we are in a worse state than you all think, my reasons
1. Lack of investment in the pipeline of players, including broken promises on the youth set up
2. A manager and coaches who are tactically inept
3. A manager that doesnt believe a successful football team needs a goal scorer and a goalkeeper
4. Too friendly with the players
5. The Stewarts are recouping monies previously invested (they are entitled to do so) meaning next season we will have sold our 3 biggest assets and we will invest less 30% of that money into the team
6. We need a real experienced coach who will challenge warne not his two drinking buddies.
7. Lower crowds next season
8. The club is promoting this season as a success with its two year improvement articles, relegation is never a success. Last time we stayed up 2 seasons if we did that this time we would have had a huge income rise next year, that has been gambled.
9. I remember blackpool away last year and warne 5 mins away from the sack, league 1 wasnt all roses last time
Smiler brings some perspective to the situation in my opinion. A lot different from the knee jerk, time for Warne to go, don't play Vaulks, if we do i will boycott the games till end of season, looking forward to Clarke Harris banging in a few goals against us next season and Warne couldn't run a chip shop. Surely these are not words from a millers fan. My advice to TH Miller is to move on, go and support Man City. They win a few games,spend lots of money and win things. The reality for us is, we are in a decent shape as Smiler says.
Yesterday was a bad day. No doubt about it. Without three key players through suspension and injury, then Smith who has been ill all week also couldn't make the team. Vyner played with a chest infection because we had nobody to play right back. It meant a patched up team,with Yates up top, who clearly struggles to offer a lot at championship level. For some reason P.W left out Towell and Crooks and played a midfield four in front of Semi who couldn't tackle a good dinner. Newell had flashes but again it showed he would be better coming on when opposition tires. Wiles had a game where everything went by him. Still believe he is a massive talent. Ajayi was caught in no mans land a lot of the time and had very little influence on what was going off. Take nothing away from Derby they were good and 6-1 doesn't flatter them. We would have struggled with a full team but i am sure we would have stopped some of the crosses coming in with the likes of Mattock, Vaulks in the team. There was a turning point in the game however, we had steadied the ship after their early goal, and if we could have gone in 1-0 down at half time who knows. The turning point was their second goal. It looked offside from the west stand,but was given. Not sure if it was but anybody who has seen a replay will have a better idea than i had.
Still a lot to play for and two important home games coming up . When we beat Forest on Saturday with Vaulks in the team i don't want people saying P.w is a master tactician and have thought it all the time. UTM.
Rodak: don't like when he doesn't catch the ball when he can but he's not the problem. Wood in defence is now. Two none wingers Taylor & Forde are. Crooks also. Yates here when Jonno is scoring for fun takes some explaining.
Of course its a big ask to beat Forest. Its been a massive ask and task to get to 36 pts with seven games to go and only one point off safety.
Rodak is garbage! Just looked at the post when we signed Rodak and you said he's back. Presumably that meant you thought the signing was a positive one. He is a young Keeper who has been loaned out by a premier league club and represents his country at under 21 and sits on the bench with the big lads. Somebody thinks he is half decent then. His weakness is his ability to command the six yard box but that will come when he has more confidence in the people in front of him. Which goalkeeper has made more saves than any other in the championship ? That piece of garbage for Rotherham.
As for Warne won't drop his mates. Who are these then? Palmer, Crookes and Forde all left out of yesterdays starting eleven.Perhaps we should have left Wood out who has a good points return when he plays. I do not know who you mean, especially as we have such a paper thin squad.
I will tell you the only player who might have a quibble. If you go down and watch them train and you hadn't seen any of the keepers play you would say Price is our number one. He is outstanding, but as gwru has stated previously in match games he has been iffy. Perhaps its time to leave the young lad out and play Price. Not because Rodak is garbage but because Price is impressing in training.
Went yesterday and we weren't as bad as the scoreline looks. Think we froze on the day and also we are a hoof ball club so need a hoof to striker to compete. Yates back to Carlyle or wherever he can get goals. We missed Vaulks for competing in the middle - Newell strolls around and doesn't put a shift in imho.
It really isn’t about one result. I can live with that disappointment. It’s the nagging frustration which stems back to August last year when it was blatantly obvious the squad needed strengthening to compete in this league and nothing happened. From a purely financial perspective, if do we go down we are going to miss out on £7 million just from TV revenue alone. Surely, but surely it was worth a calculated risk to put a few million forward so as to not lose that?
I’ve questioned before whether everything at the club is too cosy. What criticism can be levied at TS based on what he has already contributed? What criticism of PW based on the lack of additional players? What criticism of the players based on their lack of quality? I would agree, taking everything into account we have already overachieved to still be in with a shout. But that doesn’t mask the fact if we had strengthened the squad maybe, just maybe we’d have been safe by now.
That's a good, balanced post RV! It all revolves around the 'calculated risk' which you mention. The quantum of that risk is key - a few million quid? I would suggest nothing less than 10 million would give us an assurance of survival and even that is questionable. There are teams around us who have made massive investment with little to show for it. Plus we are asking one man to take on this risk and it may well be beyond his means, beyond his risk threshold or simply beyond his business instinct.
Of course its a big ask to beat Forest. Its been a massive ask and task to get to 36 pts with seven games to go and only one point off safety. Rodak is garbage! Just looked at the post when we signed Rodak and you said he's back. Presumably that meant you thought the signing was a positive one. He is a young Keeper who has been loaned out by a premier league club and represents his country at under 21 and sits on the bench with the big lads. Somebody thinks he is half decent then. His weakness is his ability to command the six yard box but that will come when he has more confidence in the people in front of him. Which goalkeeper has made more saves than any other in the championship ? That piece of garbage for Rotherham. As for Warne won't drop his mates. Who are these then? Palmer, Crookes and Forde all left out of yesterdays starting eleven.Perhaps we should have left Wood out who has a good points return when he plays. I do not know who you mean, especially as we have such a paper thin squad. I will tell you the only player who might have a quibble. If you go down and watch them train and you hadn't seen any of the keepers play you would say Price is our number one. He is outstanding, but as gwru has stated previously in match games he has been iffy. Perhaps its time to leave the young lad out and play Price. Not because Rodak is garbage but because Price is impressing in training.
Read my posts. Last August I said Price it was comical watching him in goal. He was released then came back, why? Warney is only the manager cause he's the only manager worth his salt who will work under restraints placed on him by our chairman. Jacket woundn't. Warney keep us up. Then you'll be better than any previous manager incl' king Ronnie.
Its the type of statement that is used when being thoroughly miserable and without any hope and plans one falls on in utter denial.
It is not that it could be a lot worse. It is that it is a lot bad already.
It is bad because there have been unsustained promises sent out as facts, much like the OP statement.
The youth set-up
The countless times on record when TS has said our budget is competitive
The innumerable times when the chorus is we don't just want to stay up we want to be challenging
Managers leaving due to funding issues
some very glaring mistakes in recruitment after endless drivel of due diligence and we have the right man.
Now, im not calling for anyone's head or indeed for anyone to take responsibility. Why indeed would anyone be able to take responsibility in this day and age. We have a prevailing wind of defiance and spin coupled with new age Gurus who incite the hapless and divest them of will and money. Even when said Guru is found to be a criminal and a ***** monger and dies of some common disease that he/she has cursed the many with as results of inappropriate lifestyle or lack of faith, even then the faithful dead will strengthen their denial in a haze of pseudo-intelligence and coddle together taking succour from each other's surrogate breasts.
What I am saying is that sitting on the fence is not a reason to be gleeful. Neither is wild and unfathomed accusations.
Perhaps the closest to the truth is the point of view that suggests relegation was odds on. There certainly wasn't any reason to expect anything else you say.
The lack of investment in the summer had to be due to both naive management and a tired board because if either of those factors had been different then either we would have had another manager leave or some investment. To double down on this point one only need to add the debacle of the transfer window and the incongruous curtain call of the new brilliant software and recruitment team.
In terms of actual team management, if one forgives the appaling recruitment issue, then PW and co do indeed look good. They have a motley crew to manage and every excuse to take the high road and claim plaudits for nearly being good enough every single game. This is indeed the charisma above said Guru easily veils his ridiculous shenanigans and incredible insights with. We are all Rotherham aren't we! until of course you arent...usually when you ask a pertinent question or refuse to be satisfied with the uncomfortable message that we are a great club but we just haven't had the breaks. Or, what we believe is the dam truth and everyone else is damned.
so, im going to point out that whether we stay up or not is not the point. And, whether its worse, better or to be expected is not pertinent. The point and not some vague directional magic wand that I would make visible is that after several years of progress we have utterly stalled. This is not good at all. This is not as bad as it could be, but it is not good either.
Where does the land lay between a progressive and sustainable performance each season and the fairy tales of challenging for the playoffs and a trip to Disney land?
At present and indeed since our arrival at NYS this remains unknown. 13 managers, I believe since TS saved us. Ronnie (sacked after a 5-0 loss but still doing well in the league), a couple of interim managers and then we have, Andy Scott, Steve Evans, Neil Redfern, Neil Warnock, Alan Stubbs, Kenny Jacket and Paul Warne (Warney). We have had several heads of recruitment, development officers and mystic megs but absolutely no consistency.
My Question, therefore, is how does a small local fish and chip shop become the phenomenon of Harry Ramsdens.
I don't think our situation is very complicated. I believe it was Brad who recently posted that we are a league one set up, with a league one fan base and a league one budget. That is essentially right. I look in League One and I see clubs like Sunderland and Portsmouth (who filled Wembley yesterday whereas us and Shrewsbury half filled it for a playoff final) along with Charlton, Coventry, perhaps Plymouth, Bradford and even Barnsley, and I see some clubs that are definitely bigger than us and others who probably are. I don't see any smaller clubs than us in the Championship.
Of course, you can punch above your weight for a period of time by doing the things that Ronnie and Warnock got us doing e.g being well organised, difficult to play against and working really hard. In the final analysis though unless something changes drastically we are always going to struggle in this league because we are a very small fish in a very big pond. These aren't fine margins we are talking about. We play teams week in and week out that (whether working within their budgets or not) pay their players several times what we can pay ours, and in the end that will catch up with us. If our players were better than theirs, they would buy those players off us. Evans, Warnock and Jackett weren't prepared to stick around to wait for the inevitable (Warnock wouldn't have got the blame if he couldn't keep us up when he came in, but starting on zero with everybody else the next season was a different matter, even if we could have afforded him). We were massive favourites to finish bottom this season and it was obvious why that was.
Of course we can look at individual games, team selections etc and have our own opinions on how we could have done better, but for us to stay up we need almost everything to go almost perfectly for us. If we do stay up it will be by the skin of our teeth, as it has been before, and it will be an incredible achievement. If we don't, we have it least given it a good go. Warne identified that having a strong work and team ethic was our best hope of staying up, and that has been his focus. I wouldn't argue with that.
How we improve our Championship prospects should we stay up or get back up is the million dollar question. It seems to me that it really is a queation of money pure and simple. Overspending and gambling on it working is one option. Not one I would favour, but an option. Increasing our revenue is another, but our fan base ijust isn't going to grow by enough to make a real difference. An extra two thousand every home game (if it was possible) would add a million a year to the coffers. That's how much some players in this league earn in six months. Extra revenue from other sources (hotel on site?) is a possible. Selling players for big money and using it to build is the only other one I can think of and to be honest the only one that looks realistic. It has worked for Brentford, although their Chairman has still had to pump around £100m in. It hasn't stopped Barnsley becoming the same yo-yo club that we are becoming.
My own view is that there isn't much point in us torturing ourselves. We have a financially sound club and a good place to watch our football. We are what we are. We have left league two behind. We have had visits to and wins at Wembley. If we find ourselves in the Championship we give it our best shot and get to see some quality players and quality football at some fabulous grounds, and we win occasionally. If we find ourselves in League One we should and probably will win more than we lose. I am fine with that. And I haven't yet given up on this season. If that makes me a so-called happy clapper, I will live with that too.
smiler I'd sooner be watching our side than Liverpool with their fans history of trouble following them round, a German manager & spitting Carragher spouting after their winning goal went in.
Only thing is next season it wants a clean sweep. Had enough of seeing players not good enough. Price Wood Potter Taylor Forde Palmer Crooks Yates Proctor Da Ball out the 1st team squad can go + all failures out on loan, Dom Ball not included, never been given a chance like JCH.
Warney if he wants to stay here he's got to sort it. You have no players as mates if you are a manager. There's no sentiment in football. In the real world have you ever known familiarity between a manager & his workforce. I haven't.
" In the real world have you ever known familiarity between a manager & his workforce. I haven't."
Yes i have Gwru. I can think of several managers of mine who i considered and still consider friends.
" In the real world have you ever known familiarity between a manager & his workforce. I haven't."
Yes i have Gwru. I can think of several managers of mine who i considered and still consider friends. Including one who i sit next to at NYS 30 years later.
I have criticized smiler on a number of occasions for being a "happy clapper" but the more this season has progressed I'm coming to the conclusion that basically, he's right. We have a relatively financially viable club to support in a wonderful stadium with good facilities, a club that won't spend above their means unlike the raft of Championship clubs who have spent millions trying to stand still in the second tier. I won't name them, we all know who they are & I'm glad we're not one of them. If we get relegated so be it but blaming PW is just plain daft as he's performed manfully given the constraints he is under.
Supporters sometimes have unrealistic expectations & sometimes the daft comments from Tony fuels this but when I hear people calling for the return of the fat controller who would do his level best to bankrupt us it boils my **ss, far far too much water under the bridge.
