Just read financial report if it wasn't for Tony Stewart were the hell would we be the least we can do is fill the ground. I know some of you think there is Mr money bags just around the corner I dread the day when he does go.
That financial report was from a season in league 1. TS from his company put an extra £2 Million in. TV money & season ticket sales were down. Wages were lower. As expected, nothing startling there. Thankful to TS. Rotherham public have got to back the club or we'll be a yo yo side inbetween the championship & league 1.
We made a loss in League 1 despite the fee we made for Ward and despite the £2m extra from TS/ASD. That loss will need covering as well. We made a bigger loss while we were in The Championship the season before. TS/ASD will have put money in that season as well, and that £1m plus loss needs covering eventually as well. Add it all up and it amounts to a lot of money. Several million over the two seasons. All those who criticise TS for not putting more money in need to have a good look at it. The guy has put millions already (note - effectively given, not loaned) and chances are we will already be running at a loss this season too. I get the the arguments about needing to speculate to ac***ulate but being in The Championship - even with extra TV money next season - won't mean we will make a profit next season either. All the other teams in there will have the same extra money and players/agents will know that so transfer fees and wages will go up. The bottom line is that we are pushing the boat put as far as we reasonably can, and TS is bankrolling the adventure. We could do with bigger gates (never going to be many more than we get now sadly) and income from other sources (commercial development of the site, player sales if needs be) but absent that, we are limited and are minnows compared to our rivals. When people talk about investment, what is the potential return for the investor? I believe that TS is supporting us not because it is a money maker for him, but because (put simply) he enjoys doing it and wants to do it. How many others are there out there who would want to spend their money doing that for RUFC? Do we really believe that owners from abroad with no emotional connections to the clubs they buy are all generous benefactors, or might they have ulterior motives? Look around you at clubs where that sort of ownership has ended badly or is currently going badly. To be honest, I don't want outside investment or foreign backers. I like the fact that we are owned by a local bloke who genuinely cares about us. If that means that life in the Championship is challenging or that we are a yo-yo club then so be it. I will live with that. As far as I am concerned its better than the alternatives.
Anyway, who wants a multi multi millionaire taking over at our club? Who wants to watch a team of highly rated, successful and experienced players week in and week out? It must get very boring. Oh, hang on a second!
Mike Ashley at Newcastle is a mega millionaire. So are the Americans who have been at Villa and Sunderland. How happy have their supporters been in recent years? How happy were Birmingham with their Chairman from Hong Kong who turned out to be something a lot less than they hoped? What shape are Wednesday in after three years of Chansiri? Even if we did have a mega millionaire there would be a pretty low ceiling above which he/she couldn't spend. There are success stories with big money owners but plenty of nightmares too. I don't want someone taking a punt with our club as a vehicle to try and reach the big time and make a fortune. The risk is too great. If it failed they would walk away without a care, and we'd be in a mess. We're not a club with a big enough base to make us commercially attractive for a big overseas investor. I'd view anyone like that purportedly interested in us with a healthy dose of skepticism. Anybody who looks at our accounts and still wants to have a pop at Tony Stewart or who isn't happy with where we are as a club needs to get a grip. In my opinion.
I know I am going over the same ground if the Rotherham public want to show there appreciation show some support we can make a difference. Another result went in our favour tonight we can do it.
Where is the link to the financial report mentioned?
I'd like to read it too, is it recent? It's no good unless it is up to date.
I'm not an Accountant but I do financial account matters as part of my job. It is also the case that Accounting is not a black and white matter, and accounts can be legally represented to show a situation that suits a business, to some extent at least.
For example, does it suit TS to show the Business of RUFC as a loss against his other businesses? I don’t know, but we should not be naïve enough to assume it is all bad news…
All football teams are a business, and it cannot be the case that all football clubs are making massive losses, otherwise the leagues would cease to exist.
Whilst accepting that some rich people can afford to run a club as a 'hobby', the vast majority of owners would simply not own a club unless they thought they can make it sustainable in the long term.
Given all that – two things are 100% clear:
1) It makes no business sense to go into a lower league as the costs/revenue ratio will worsen
2) We already get near capacity crowds, having a full house makes a small difference, but not much in the great scheme of things – our crowds are OK and the club is already well supported by it’s fans.
So, in my opinion it IS reasonable to argue that TS (and other supporting partners) SHOULD invest more in the team in order to stay in this league, as to do so makes CLEAR AND OBVIOUS BUSINESS SENSE.
I’m not talking silly money, I’m taking about ‘reasonable risk’.. which any successful business takes. There is no such thing as a successful business that does not take an element of risk.
It is also fair to ask : why does the business employ people who fail to deliver ? In particular the repeated failings in the transfer market, and failings in a youth Policy to bring through successful players (Assets) who we can play and sell…
These and others are business matters that could be improved, to improve the business and profits.
I can accept things could get better through addressing issues. I can accept that accounting matters are taken to benefit TS’s overall business dealings. I cannot accept that we are not in a position to have a successful business in the current League if the club is run as well as it could be, with reasonable business risk and reward.
Where is the link to the financial report mentioned?
I'd like to read it too, is it recent? It's no good unless it is up to date.
I'm not an Accountant but I do financial account matters as part of my job. It is also the case that Accounting is not a black and white matter, and accounts can be legally represented to show a situation that suits a business, to some extent at least.
For example, does it suit TS to show the Business of RUFC as a loss against his other businesses? I don’t know, but we should not be naïve enough to assume it is all bad news…
All football teams are a business, and it cannot be the case that all football clubs are making massive losses, otherwise the leagues would cease to exist.
Whilst accepting that some rich people can afford to run a club as a 'hobby', the vast majority of owners would simply not own a club unless they thought they can make it sustainable in the long term.
Given all that – two things are 100% clear:
1) It makes no business sense to go into a lower league as the costs/revenue ratio will worsen 2) We already get near capacity crowds, having a full house makes a small difference, but not much in the great scheme of things – our crowds are OK and the club is already well supported by it’s fans.
So, in my opinion it IS reasonable to argue that TS (and other supporting partners) SHOULD invest more in the team in order to stay in this league, as to do so makes CLEAR AND OBVIOUS BUSINESS SENSE.
I’m not talking silly money, I’m taking about ‘reasonable risk’.. which any successful business takes. There is no such thing as a successful business that does not take an element of risk.
It is also fair to ask : why does the business employ people who fail to deliver ? In particular the repeated failings in the transfer market, and failings in a youth Policy to bring through successful players (Assets) who we can play and sell…
These and others are business matters that could be improved, to improve the business and profits.
I can accept things could get better through addressing issues. I can accept that accounting matters are taken to benefit TS’s overall business dealings. I cannot accept that we are not in a position to have a successful business in the current League if the club is run as well as it could be, with reasonable business risk and reward.
Google Paul Davies Advertiser you'll find accounts 2017/18 season there. I agree with you to a point all should have been done to keep championship football at the New York stadium next season. Not saying spending millions just as you say a reasonable business risk. But I question if we have the right men in place: chief operating officer & head of recruitment. Also the Rotherham public should back the club more. Fill the home seats up every game, makes a difference. Then TS could extend the capacity of the ground.
so the headlines just confirm what I say... avoiding going down is worth some risk.
Changes nothing from the points I made....
In summary : We are Ok...but we could be so so much better...
"In the year following the club's 2017 relegation from the Championship turnover dropped from nearly £13 million to just under £10m. (Therefore risking a reasonable budget in the January window just gone would make total business sense to try and stay up)
Stewart raised the sponsorship contribution of his company, ASD Lighting, from £1m in 2016/17 to £3m. (We have to thank him for that)
The accounts, published yesterday, showed Rotherham made a pre-tax loss of £510,000 in 2017/18, compared to more than £1.2m in the previous 12 months. (By no means a massive loss)
Other key points for 2017/18 included:
A loss in television revenue of around £4.8m. (We know the Championship has a better deal coming next season - we lose that if we go down)
A reduction in the wage bill from just under £8.7m to £6.3m.
Player purchases amounted to £270,000 with player sales totalling £800,000.
There was a drop in season-ticket sales from 6,194 to 5,582. (Because we were relegated and showed no attempt to stay up... this will be repeated if we go down)"
I agree TS is a great chairman and owner, however you have no idea if we are losing money this season and if you look at how the numbers are made up I think you are mistaken. What I believe is more likely is that TS has used the increased revenues from this season to balance the books from the recent seasons, and he is perfectly entitled to do so. Also the lack of commercial development in Rotherham will be impacting his long term plans. Where I do not see the logic is in not investing a little more to increase our chances of at least one more season in the championship where we know revenues are significantly higher (I believe due to his sensible management, the ration between revenue and costs in the championship is better than league 1) and next year they will increase by a minimum of 33% more likely 45% to 50%. I am also concerned about the lack of investment in the academy or certainly little visibility of investment. If we want a club long term and want to not have to spend on players we need to grow and sell our own.
Lastly the speculation on social media that someone has offered to invest in the club to help develop and grow the club and that has been rejected by TS, I hope that is not true.
I do not live in Rotherham anymore but the people of Rotherham need to do more, we should be selling out that ground week in and week out in the championship, it is a big town and all this too close to sheffield , leeds etc doesn't stack up for me.
I think we can stop saying we need to support the club more.
The ground is NEARLY full every game and the few extra it would take to fill it would make no difference.
also it is never a sell=out as there is always a small section kept empty to keep fans apart, and the main difference between the gates we get of 9k+ and 10k+ is simply the number of away fans... Our areas are always nearly full.
there is NO ISSUE with the number of fans... we fill the vast majority of our capacity 11+k
-- Edited by Davidedin on Wednesday 27th of February 2019 11:42:12 PM
-- Edited by Davidedin on Wednesday 27th of February 2019 11:59:06 PM
I agree that the attendances are decent. I thought they held up well in League 1. We have a ground that is the perfect size for us. I would love to think that we could make it bigger and encourage more to come and watch but I'm not sure it is realistic. I suspect they are unlikely to increase by much. £25 is a lot for a casual supporter to pay. I wouldn't pay that to watch any other team, so I suspect we are unlikely to attract many more beyond the existing core support.
The way I read the accounts, we are very well run financially. We make a modest (in football terms) loss every season, whatever division we are in and Tony Stewart plugs the gap. I agree with Derby that it would be great to see an academy that could produce successful professionals. Income from player sales is a vital revenue stream for a club like us. I also agree with Derby that commercial development is key. I am convinced that the delay with the Guest and Chrimes site development means that we are a couple of years or so behind what TS had planned for us.
-- Edited by smiler on Thursday 28th of February 2019 07:13:47 AM
It's always bugged me that our ground capacity is smaller than Doncaster's. East stand & the away end should be level in height with the north stand.
Whatever it's up to our management team to keep us up. Got to keep with 4-5-1 but need our best wingers Williams & Newell playing if they are fit. Taylor, next choice. Wiles needs to be involved at least on the bench.
Great post from Davidedin, and he is quite right about football now being a business. As with all business there has to be a sellable product at the end for people to buy into. By tradition Rotherham united is not a product the casual purchaser, i.e. punters through the turnstiles would particularly buy into on a regular basis.
As diehards we will support come what may but the rest of the Rotherham public may venture out to see a big game such as Wembley but forget the cold, rainy saturday to watch us play Rochdale in L1, or be in another relegation struggle as we are now, again; in that situation you will never see an increase of 1000 that derby talks of.
To increase the numbers watching on a regular basis you need to see sustained development on and off the field, and attractive exciting football against bigger and more famous clubs. This has happened to a certain extent when we moved to NYS. They need to see it and want to be part of the success story. For that to happen we would need to be fairly well established in the Championship for 3 - 4 years being mid-tableish without the constant threat of relegation and with a few good cup runs at least. Then they may start to believe and come to NYS regularly because they know they will be entertained and the entrance fee was well spent. Hence Davidedin is right again about the need for investing with reasonable risk.
