Not sure the ref would allow twelve players on the pitch but i can see what you are getting at. 3:5:2 is a formation Warne tried on at least one occasion last year when he pushed Emmanuelle wide on the right in a midfield position. The back three of Raggett,Wood and Robertson lack pace so would rely on the two wide men in the middle five to stop the threat getting to them. I agree with ajayi in the holding position because we dont appear to have anybody in the club that fits that role. The two up front and three offensive midfielders give us a bit more of a threat in the oppositions half. However,i think the better sides in the league who have quicker thinking/faster offensive players would give us a going over. The 3:5:2. formation might well be worth chancing against sides like Bolton,Q.P.R and Reading at home who we all play before christmas.
As i said before my preferred line up is 4:2:3:1 but we dont appear to have to two holding midfielders to play it. I know it means being negative and trying to frustrate and win games from set pieces and its not easy on the eye,but i genuinely believe its our best hope of survival.
To answer your question my team would be
Rodak
Vyner. Raggett , Robertson. Mattock.
Ajayi.
Williams Vaulks Towell Manning.
Smith.
Very harsh on leaving Wood out but feel Robertson has a little more pace and of what little we have seen looks at least as good as Wood now. The impact players on the bench would be Newell,Vassell,Taylor(One Day he might!!) . Then Palmer Wood, Wiles and Price. Not sure about Forde but it was a toss up between him and Palmer for the final spot on the bench.
I'd be thinking - we're not conceding too many (ignoring 1st game), the issue is we are not putting away our chances.
I'm not sure what the answer is apart from maybe getting Proctor fully fit, but then then to take advantage of that we'd need to go 4-4-2 as we'd still need Smith.
Proctor and Kieffer Moore were for me the perfect combination up front, creating chances for each other and actually putting them away - so maybe Smith can fulfill that role and it would work.
Whilst not wanting to do a "bornamiller" and talk about things we haven't got ... I'd also say - What would I have done different if I was Tony Stewart? My thinking would have been : by adding Keiffer Moore to the rest of the squad would probably be worth 12 maybe 15 points during the season. Therefore the business case for paying £2M even £3M (enough to tempt Barnsley to sell, who nearly sold him to Preston but the offer was too low) for him versus relegation would have been absolutely a straightforward business based decision I would have made... Financial risk well worth it versus lost income if relegated, and a player we could have probably sold-on in two years for £3M or £4M worst case scenario.
We would get ripped to bits playing 4-4-2. What I’d be doing especially now we have good midfield options is actually using them. We often bypass our midfield but we need to start looking after the ball more. Towell, Manning, Palmer and even Ajayi are all comfortable with the ball.
Understand possession has never won a game of football but being that little bit more careful when we’ve actually got it could improve us no end. (Not that we are doing too badly at the moment)
We would get ripped to bits playing 4-4-2. What I’d be doing especially now we have good midfield options is actually using them. We often bypass our midfield but we need to start looking after the ball more. Towell, Manning, Palmer and even Ajayi are all comfortable with the ball.
Understand possession has never won a game of football but being that little bit more careful when we’ve actually got it could improve us no end. (Not that we are doing too badly at the moment)
Agree but Ajayi & Palmer are only cover in midfield.
I agree with C. At the moment we play a lot of long balls up to Smith who has a near impossible task because there is often nobody for him to knock it on or down to. Regularly he has to try and hold the ball up amongst three defenders for three or four seconds while support arrives, or chase lost causes. For me, the long ball game works better in a 442 system, with one forward running in behind and/or picking up the pieces of the other. If we are going to play 451 (and I understand why Warne thinks we have to) then we should in theory have the numbers in midfield areas to pass and look after the ball for spells at a time. That is so important, because it makes the opposition work and gives us time to recover. The way we play at the moment by banging it long too quickly and too often we are just giving it away cheaply and putting ourselves under the pump. Manning, Ajayi, Towell, Newell, Palmer are all capable of looking after the ball. I think we just need to be a bit braver with it. At the moment its a bit catch 22 - the movement is poor because they don't expect teammates to look for the pass, then it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy (if that makes sense). Having said that I would have taken six points from six games if offered it. Not a bad start at all.
I understand the above.. that we can't go gung-ho... but in the end we need to score goals to pick up enough points.
For that we need someone alongside Smith who can be both provider and scorer, I'm not sure any of our midfield are those players. For me we need two proper strikers on the pitch at the same time. So if 4-4-2 won't work I'd go 3-5-2 as per HM's OP.
-- Edited by Davidedin on Thursday 6th of September 2018 02:42:44 PM
The risk of 442 is that our shaky defence could be exposed, and its alright having two strikers but they might be redundant if we can't get enough of the ball to get it up the pitch to them. Its a real dilemma. Who'd be a manager eh? I always remember Venables in his England manager days saying that football is about players not systems, and that as players move around the pitch teams move from 451 to 433 to 442 in seconds. At the end of the day we need our players to believe they are good enough for the division. Confidence goes a long way.
totally true but we need a system that gets the ball up the pitch and we keep possession and at the moment the system warne has chosen isnt working with the players we have
Hull at home & Wigan away sides that started couldn't work. Taylor never been a winger, Williams can't play on the left. Millwall & Wigan game when Vassell came on way to go. Vassell can play on the left & get up to support the loan striker.
I'd have Forde in training playing Right back. Always looked like he could tackle. I've always said play players in there correct positions. My side for Derby playing 4-5-1 Rodak; Forde Ajayi Robertson Mattock; Williams Towell Vaulks Manning Vassell; Smith
I am all for trying new things but Anthony Forde at full back i cannot buy. I know T71 you dont rate Vyner but Forde is 25 in a couple of months time. He has played mostly wide of a right midfield (occasionally left) for Wolves,Walsall and us. He can create chances(said before joint top assists last year with Newell). The problem most of our players have is the standard they are in. To put Anthony at full back would make his chances of cutting in the championship even harder.
We have to play players in their correct positions as you have quite rightly said. Vyner and Jones appear to be what Warne has got at right back. I am with you that the jury is out on both of them but we have to try and get a settled formation and team. Raggett is out for several months so we have to change the starting back line next Saturday. I believe he will start with the back four that finished at Wigan. Vyner, Robetson,wood and Mattock. It doesnt look the strongest but it might be our best option.
Forde has never been a winger. Strong point of his game is tracking back helping his full back. Worth a try in training seeing if he can play Right back. Looking like the only way he will get in the side.
Robertson & Wood paired at CB not sure. Both prefer playing left side. I'd be going with Ajayi & Robertson to match the pace we are going to face rest of September.
The key for me is Vassell he has to play on the left. He can get up to support Smith and back in position when we have not got the ball.
We have to play 4 5 1, I would stick with Ajayi sitting and the rest of the midfield would be Towell and Manning with Williams on the right.
At the back I would play Vaulks at right back with Robertson Wood and Mattock.
With us having more choice in midfield it does give Warney a chance to move people like Ajayi and Vaulks who are more versatile than most into different positions. I am a big fan of Vaulks and feel his energy,drive,heading ability and goals would be missed if we played him at right back. It is a shout though if he feels both Jones and Vyner are not up to it at right back. I will stand by Vyner and give him more time to settle in. Lets get Jones fit before we make a decision on him,although that might be a hard job.
No rose tainted glasses. Vaulks has got to play full stop. He's got it. When he hasn't I'll say. Right back to start with perhaps but he's not a Right back but better than the ones we've got there. While January then do something.
