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Topic: Half season review

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BradtheMiller
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Half season review
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http://d3d4football.com/rotherham-united-half-season-review-by-ian-bradley/



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Bornamiller
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Totally unimpressed - feel so Pursehouse days apathy is here again.

I feel we could do better but there is no ambition.

If Yates is good enough I'll stand egging - and his "Rotherham type player" description annoys and frustrates me......a lot !

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wotsisname
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Sometimes history has a way of repeating itself. However, I don't think we are totally in the doldrums right now. We're just on the edge. Still not getting giddy with the sudden winning ways.

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Exetermiller
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Patchy I think is fair, as much as I do welcome the last 2 wins.

From what I've seen the L1 standard is utterly awful bar 2 or 3, which says how far we've fallen. The squad that got out of this league via the play offs would be top of the league now - no doubt.

At the half way point many as Brad says would be more than happy of where we are, I' mean lets face it - we don't want promotion do we?

So I ask what do we want? - green shoots have been passed around, and I'm afraid I don't see it. I don't see a platform being created which gives us identity, the quality in the squad is not ours to keep and we have more than enough players capable of clangers and in key areas and times of games - which clearly states which shop we're shopping in!

The club should come out and tell us how it is, with a short / medium / long term vision of how to rectify what we have done so badly the last 3 years.

And I hope Vaulks continues to make me eat my own words, as quite frankly I'm enjoying it at the minute



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smiler
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Good summary review Brad.

We have stopped the bleeding and there are signs of life. Lots still to do but after the horror of last season we needed a re-building effort and 8th at this stage is ok, albeit in a very poor division. I think most would have taken that despite the 'top 5 budget' talk. Middle of the Championship looking up is a world away.

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Bornamiller
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"don't see a platform being created"

These are the operative words!

That is for the championship. Feelings of disappointment really because the chairman has tested the market and Rotherham people didn't flood to the NYS in sufficient numbers to make the risky extra investment viable. So we are having a dose of reality. League one - with league one players and a lower championship ground.

Quite wise of the boss really - hard nosed business man sets the budget to suit the market we're in and that's league one for the forseable future.



-- Edited by Bornamiller on Thursday 28th of December 2017 10:34:25 AM

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T71
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Agree about Yates, same goes with Forde. Warney's idea of a Rotherham United type player but not many other people's.

Half season review we've ended up with doubts surrounding defence/keeper. No cover for Potter. Only Williams when he's on his game good enough on the wing. Moore our main goal threat, more or less certain to leave. Vaulks player of the season. Some promising young players coming through. Hinds, Wiles & Bailey-King. But we are keeping the season alive.

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NewYorkshire
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Think losing Proctor is a real blow and not keeping Moore means we are light up top. JCH is now the 10 minute Blaster and Yates has never been a striker - zero ring craft from lack of experience, he needs a loan spell lower down to bring him on. Frecks should have been on his way out due to continual injury worries but we need him to add any kind of spark. Ajayi is improving along with Vaulks and Towell. Warne must see himself in Forde because he's had far too many chances and doesn't cut the mustard for me. We are an unambitious league 1 outfit happy to sit where we are in my opinion.

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splinter
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Your last sentence sums it up New Yorkshire and the reason so many are becoming dis-enchanted with the club ownership which seems to have found its acceptable (to them) status quo. The January transfer will be the confirmation I'm sure.

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BradtheMiller
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I think top end third tier is around our natural level & unless there is significant outside investment in both the club & the infrastructure that's the best we can hope for despite Tony's repeated clarion calls (which no-one believes).

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T71 wrote:

Agree about Yates, same goes with Forde. Warney's idea of a Rotherham United type player but not many other people's.

Half season review we've ended up with doubts surrounding defence/keeper. No cover for Potter. Only Williams when he's on his game good enough on the wing. Moore our main goal threat, more or less certain to leave. Vaulks player of the season. Some promising young players coming through. Hinds, Wiles & Bailey-King. But we are keeping the season alive.

I have said this before - it is amazing how people can see things so differently.  I think that I (respectfully) disagree with almost everything you say about our players T71.

For me Yates has done pretty well since he came in.  We have won three and drawn one of the four games he has featured in lately and turned the Blackpool game around by putting him on in place of a big target man.  He might not have scored (did the first against MK Dons get credited to him?  It should have been) but his movement has been good and he has contributed.  Some people just want what they think is a 'Rotherham-type forward' like a Gwyther or Lee.  Those sort of strikers have their place but they aren't the only option. 

I don't recognise the term 'Rotherham-type player'.  There are just good players, average players and bad players.  Wigan were the best team in our division I've seen this season and they murdered us with small forwards who had good movement.  Barcalona, Liverpool and Man City seem to be decent going forwards without having a recognised target man in there.  What I am saying is that a big, physical target man is one way to go, but it isn't compulsory.  In fact we have started to play better football without a big target man.

I have seen you call for Moore to play instead of Yates following his return from suspension on the basis that you always play your best team.  I have also seen you say that you shouldn't change a winning team, and that we should play our own players not loan players.  Which is it?  You can't have it all ways.

I know you rate him, but Vaulks as player of the season so far must be a wind up.  He wouldn't make my top five in a 'midfielder of the season' category.  He has done alright and his versatility and gameness means he is a good man to have around so I'm not having a go at him but in my opinion he will never make a starting central midfielder in any decent side in League One or higher.

You seem to want Bailey-King in our first team on the basis that he is quick but this is a lad who has had about 90 minutes of first team action in meaningless games and looked very raw, and who can't get a game at North Ferriby who are bottom of the Conference North.  The idea that he is a better option at the moment than Newell, Taylor, Williams or even Forde (not my favourite) at the moment is fanciful as far as I can see.

 

 

 

 



-- Edited by smiler on Friday 29th of December 2017 08:29:57 AM

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Archie
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smiler wrote:
T71 wrote:

Agree about Yates, same goes with Forde. Warney's idea of a Rotherham United type player but not many other people's.

Half season review we've ended up with doubts surrounding defence/keeper. No cover for Potter. Only Williams when he's on his game good enough on the wing. Moore our main goal threat, more or less certain to leave. Vaulks player of the season. Some promising young players coming through. Hinds, Wiles & Bailey-King. But we are keeping the season alive.

I have said this before - it is amazing how people can see things so differently.  I think that I (respectfully) disagree with almost everything you say about our players T71.

For me Yates has done pretty well since he came in.  We have won three and drawn one of the four games he has featured in lately and turned the Blackpool game around by putting him on in place of a big target man.  He might not have scored (did the first against MK Dons get credited to him?  It should have been) but his movement has been good and he has contributed.  Some people just want what they think is a 'Rotherham-type forward' like a Gwyther or Lee.  Those sort of strikers have their place but they aren't the only option. 

I don't recognise the term 'Rotherham-type player'.  There are just good players, average players and bad players.  Wigan were the best team in our division I've seen this season and they murdered us with small forwards who had good movement.  Barcalona, Liverpool and Man City seem to be decent going forwards without having a recognised target man in there.  What I am saying is that a big, physical target man is one way to go, but it isn't compulsory.  In fact we have started to play better football without a big target man.

I have seen you call for Moore to play instead of Yates following his return from suspension on the basis that you always play your best team.  I have also seen you say that you shouldn't change a winning team, and that we should play our own players not loan players.  Which is it?  You can't have it all ways.

I know you rate him, but Vaulks as player of the season so far must be a wind up.  He wouldn't make my top five in a 'midfielder of the season' category.  He has done alright and his versatility and gameness means he is a good man to have around so I'm not having a go at him but in my opinion he will never make a starting central midfielder in any decent side in League One or higher.

You seem to want Bailey-King in our first team on the basis that he is quick but this is a lad who has had about 90 minutes of first team action in meaningless games and looked very raw, and who can't get a game at North Ferriby who are bottom of the Conference North.  The idea that he is a better option at the moment than Newell, Taylor, Williams or even Forde (not my favourite) at the moment is fanciful as far as I can see.

 

 

 

 



-- Edited by smiler on Friday 29th of December 2017 08:29:57 AM

 

 "If you say something loud enough ...and repeat it enough...people will eventually start believing it!"

 



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derbymiller
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smiler your comments on vaulks are unbelievable to me, what do you want? please I am serious tell me what you expect a league 1 small club to have?

Vaulks is exactly what we need, a player that is tall and strong, has a goal in him, inspires others around him, gives everything for the team (at blackpool he was very ill and shouldnt have played, but he got off his sick bed to wear that shirt), he can play well in 3 to 4 positions. Give me 11 vaulks any day of the week.

Frecks is a club legend for me, unlike Ronnie moore and others who played 2 seasons and ran, frecks has given the best part of his career to this club, he is exactly what we need and I am sure he is the man around the club more so than Warne.



What I want to see and hear is about the youth squad and the academy, that is ouer future, we need to be bringing through 2 players a year with one big sell on every 2 years, that is Rotherham



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smiler
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I agree with you about Frecks. He has been the standout player during our time at the NYS. A fit Frecklington is still a massive player for us.

I also agree about the need to bring young players through. Personally (and I will put my tin hat on at this point) I think we made a big mistake sacking Redfearn. We gave him a long deal with a remit to develop younger players and panicked and sacked him when we hit a short term sticky patch, and in fact after losing at Bolton in a match we totally dominated and would have won nine times out of ten. If we had kept him on we might have been relegated a season sooner than we actually were, but we would have been a stronger club in the long run and with hindsight we might have been better off taking the drop if it came rather than spending a fortune on the Warnock miracle just to buy ourselves a year of torture. Of course we will never know for sure.

On Vaulks, I like his attitude, commitment and so on. I really do. There are worse players than him at the club and I get that clubs need players like him. I have no great issue with him. It is just that in my view comments like 'he has got that something extra', or 'player of the season' or 'build a team around him' are miles wide of the mark. In my opinion for all his qualities his first touch is ordinary, his passing is below par and he doesn't read or control a game particularly well. So for me he can do a job in midfield when needed but doesn't have the quality to be a first choice in there because it is such a pivotal position. Whether he can be brought on as a centre back or full back I am not sure, but for me if he wants regular first team football in League One or higher that might be his best bet.

That isn't me having a go at the player, it is just an honest assessment as I see it whereas clearly others see something special in him that I don't. If he is playing at Walsall I will be cheering him on with the rest of them come what may.



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GlennMiller
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Vaulks is an interesting character who obviously divides opinion! It's difficult to criticise a guy who puts so much heart and effort into his performances, but there's more to a footballer than just those qualities. I went to the pre-season friendly at S****horpe when he first joined the club and after he played the most fabulous ball down the left wing to Taylor (?) I was convinced we'd got a real gem on our hands. He struggled like everyone else in that team for the rest of the season and I think his ability as a midfield play-maker deserted him. I don't know if it was a confidence thing but for me he has never really been a commanding presence in the midfield role and my main recollections of him there are unfortunately mistimed tackles in key areas and misplaced passes. The games in which he's really impressed me have been when he's filled in at RB or CB - against MKDons he was deservedly MOM. He truly is a utility player and for a manager he is a dream to have in the squad, particularly when injuries or suspensions happen.

HOWEVER, there have been instances in my time watching RUFC when players with the right attitude have come good, supporters have eaten their words and their selection in the team has been a formality. Two that come to mind are Henson and McEwen. If my memory serves me correct, both were ridiculed early in their time, but eventually they became essential members of the midfield. There's no reason why Vaulks couldn't make the same impact in time, but at present, building the team around him or player of the season calls are a bit of a stretch for me.

If I were PW, I'd play him at CB against Walsall. His lack of height or bulk doesn't bother me - he's got the athleticism to outjump most tall centre forwards and his agility is something that is needed in our back four. We have midfielders who, on their day are capable of doing a superior job in that part of the field so let's give them a chance to play to their strengths.



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GlennMiller wrote:

Vaulks is an interesting character who obviously divides opinion! It's difficult to criticise a guy who puts so much heart and effort into his performances, but there's more to a footballer than just those qualities. I went to the pre-season friendly at S****horpe when he first joined the club and after he played the most fabulous ball down the left wing to Taylor (?) I was convinced we'd got a real gem on our hands. He struggled like everyone else in that team for the rest of the season and I think his ability as a midfield play-maker deserted him. I don't know if it was a confidence thing but for me he has never really been a commanding presence in the midfield role and my main recollections of him there are unfortunately mistimed tackles in key areas and misplaced passes. The games in which he's really impressed me have been when he's filled in at RB or CB - against MKDons he was deservedly MOM. He truly is a utility player and for a manager he is a dream to have in the squad, particularly when injuries or suspensions happen.

HOWEVER, there have been instances in my time watching RUFC when players with the right attitude have come good, supporters have eaten their words and their selection in the team has been a formality. Two that come to mind are Henson and McEwen. If my memory serves me correct, both were ridiculed early in their time, but eventually they became essential members of the midfield. There's no reason why Vaulks couldn't make the same impact in time, but at present, building the team around him or player of the season calls are a bit of a stretch for me.

If I were PW, I'd play him at CB against Walsall. His lack of height or bulk doesn't bother me - he's got the athleticism to outjump most tall centre forwards and his agility is something that is needed in our back four. We have midfielders who, on their day are capable of doing a superior job in that part of the field so let's give them a chance to play to their strengths.

 I agree with every single word of that.  I don't think anyone is anti-Vaulks.  Even those who don't love him as much as others seem to would I am sure acknowledge that he has his qualities.  Just not a midfielder to build a side around in my book.  Not yet at least (as you say Glenn - ever the optimist!).  He has a good leap on him and maybe centre back is the position for him.  My reservation at the moment would be whether he could handle a physical target man and also for some of the goals we have conceded from set pieces it has been Vaulks who has lost a runner so for me there is a question mark about his defensive instincts.  Apparently (according to Ronnie Moore who had him at Tranmere) Vaulks always fancied himself as a centre-back.  Lets give him a run in the side there and see whether or not he can be a solution to the long-standing problems in that position.

 



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T71
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Tell me midfielders we've got better than Vaulks. Potter & Frecks are on there last legs. I haven't been totally convinced by Towell. I don't want Vaulks at centre back. Not tall enough, been ok last few games but we've played worst sides in this league.

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