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Topic: THE WOLVES ARE CIRCLING

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GlennMiller
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THE WOLVES ARE CIRCLING
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It's as inevitable as death and taxes. Another home defeat and the knockers come out for another game of let's blame the manager. It's a favourite Rotherham trait - just look at the amount of posts on this site after our victories compared to the feeding frenzy after a defeat. However, this is RUFC and the fans are never happier than when there's something to moan about.

Well someone has to stand up and give a view from a different perspective so here goes.

Amid all the calls for Warnes' head, I've not seen one reasoned comment which offers any analysis of why we lost today. Try this for size - we were beaten by the best team to have visited NYS this season. Superior to Rotherham in every department and not one weak link in their side.  The first 25 minutes was a fabulous game of football with two good attacking sides going toe to toe. The reason Wigan went in front on two occasions was due to a goalkeeper who looked as though he had a bungee rope around his waist and tied to the post. His inability to come for balls within his 6 yard box invited constant pressure and Wigan scoring was an absolute certainty. Add to that the most incompetent Refereeing display I have witnessed in years and our chances of winning look very bleak.

Warne's 442 tactics worked well and Ball scored an excellent goal, linking well with Moore. Sorry, I forgot, Warne is tactically inept! He changed things in the second half bringing on Williams who gave us an edge, but his introduction of Vaulks and Yates were difficult to understand - particularly as I thought Ball was our best player and the introduction of Newell would have been more appropriate. 

Yes, Warne didn't have a perfect day, but neither did every player particularly his international keeper. Wigan, apart from their screams every time they were tackled (which the Ref bought with sickening regularity) had a near perfect day. With the limited resources at his disposal (we only have 10 decent players - many of the better ones brought in by Warne) Warne did a satisfactory job. 

Yes we're on a poor run, yes we've been out-thought by some good/some indifferent teams and yes, some of our individual players have contributed to our downfall, but it's not the end of the world. Every League 1 side that I have seen this season would have been undone by Wigan today - it's no disgrace. It's only a month or so ago that Warne was being celebrated for his team's performances.  Managers don't go bad overnight and the fact is, we're on a bad run which has eroded confidence and he has earned the right to turn things around. 

There you go. My head's now well and truly above the parapet and I'm prepared for incoming. Do your worst - the previous incoming bullets were real!!

 

 

 

 



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smiler
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For my part Glenn I like to post an opinion after every game, win lose or draw and I like to think I give credit where it is due..

There is no shame in losing to Wigan. They are a good side - better than us in all departments.

I think Warne has lost the plot a bit and I will tell you why I think so.

His post-match comments are becoming increasingly worrying. He thought we could have got something today and deserved something last week. He is wrong on both counts. To take those two games in isolation is an error in any case. We got nothing out of games against Wimbledon and Gillingham who are both struggling and were inept in both. We were awful at Donny and lucky to get a point against another poor side. And we were turned over by a Crewe side who are near the foot of League Two. During the course of the bad run our football has become more and more laboured.

Added to that, he is being panicked into changes every week. If you asked me what his preferred back five is if all players are fit I wouldn't have a clue and I suspect neither would he.

All but three of that squad could leave for me and I wouldn't bat an eyelid. Two of them don't belong to us. Warne brought most of them in or (as bad) retained them in the summer.

I am not joining the calls for him to go Glenn. Give him the season at least, But it is dire at the moment and he doesn't seem to know how to fix it.

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derbymiller
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the change in goalkeepers today was a criminal act everybody in the ground could see that expect the man paid to see it. That is a resaon why he either needs better help and people around him or step aside.

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Davidedin
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derbymiller wrote:

the change in goalkeepers today was a criminal act everybody in the ground could see that expect the man paid to see it. That is a resaon why he either needs better help and people around him or step aside.

 Agreed - why is he doing this??? O'Connell is clearly the better of out Goalkeepers. Having watched the goals again just now on Telly, I'd like to bet O'Connell saves 2 of them, in fact I think I might have.

And I also agree his post match comments are worringly rose tinted glasses based.

So, I come on here to praise or to grumble based on what I see on the pitch. The first 10 games were great, win or lose it was good to watch - Warne seems to have lost his ability to recreate that style.

What I see now is a team heading for League 2 unless we play our best 11 and go back to beginning of season tactics.

Overall I blame the management team for lack of investment on the field for 4 years, but currently, the man in Charge of the team and tactics is Warne, so who else do we blame??

It's human also to come on here or other Boards when things are not going so well - why ? Because we love our club and we get frustrated when we see things that are not sorted out.

We are 6 points from the drop when only a few weeks ago we were 4 points clear of the 7th team. As a fan, last season's pain is coming back and it hurts....



-- Edited by Davidedin on Sunday 26th of November 2017 10:48:03 AM

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NewYorkshire
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PW has to come up with a team he thinks are the best and stick with it. Today we play the dreadful For we one wing and Towell on the other. Last week it's Williams & Newell, then Taylor and etc etc. That's the most frustrating bit. And don't make a neutral substitution - Vaulks is just Potter.

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BradtheMiller
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Disagree, at least Vaulks will try a shot every now & again, Potter is so defensive minded he makes Smallwood look like Ryan Giggs.

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smiler
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A bit of perspective. I know stats can be alarming but I was looking at the fact that that we play Bristol Rovers next week and they are on a terrible run and was hoping it might be a chance to to get back on track. Then I thought that we have played a few out of form sides lately during our bad run of seven without a win, so I checked and I was reminded that:-

Wigan were a good side and fair play to them but there was a gulf between them and us.
Oxford seem to blow hot and cold but a point there looks ok.
Doncaster had a terrible home record before they played us and our game there was a grim battle between what looked like two poor sides.
Crewe are three points clear of League Two relagation places. They have only won two out of last eight games, one being against us.
Gillingham have won two out of last eight league games, one being against us. They are in trouble near the bottom pof the table.
Shrewsbury have lost three out of their last four league games. The one they won of course was against us at NYS when they had ten men for half the match and scored the winner in injury time despite being a man down.
Wimbledon have won two out of their last eight league games, one of them being against us. They have won two of ten home games all season. They are bang in trouble.

In a nutshell, its not like we have been playing great teams in difficult cir***stances. We have just been rubbish against mostly average teams or worse. We haven't been unlucky despite Warne's suggestion to the contrary. In those seven games how many have we played well in? Probably the first half at Crewe and in patches at Oxford, and we huffed and puffed against Shrewsbury's ten men without creating anything.

If the wolves are circling this might all explain why they might be, particularly since before this run there were hopeful signs that we might at least be competitive after such a bad last season.

Hopefully we can turn it around and I wouldn't want to have a knee jerk reaction because the best of teams can have a bad run occasionally, but we need some points out of the games in the run up to Christmas, or it could go very pear shaped.


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splinter
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If Warne didn't have such a club history would he be allowed such slack for last season's and the recent abysmal performances ? His "love the club" mentality will not wash forever even with many of the "happy clappers" still populating the message boards.

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gazmadmiller
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splinter wrote:

If Warne didn't have such a club history would he be allowed such slack for last season's and the recent abysmal performances ? His "love the club" mentality will not wash forever even with many of the "happy clappers" still populating the message boards.

 Happy Clapper on message boards and a chairman no longer willing to invest the sums required to achieve success in modern football crycry 



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derbymiller
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excluding stubbs and jacket warne has the 3rd worst win ratio in history.

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gazmadmiller
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derbymiller wrote:

excluding stubbs and jacket warne has the 3rd worst win ratio in history.

 Warne

Managerial record by team and tenure
TeamFromToRecordRef
PWDLWin %
Rotherham United28 November 2016Present541473325.9[9][27]
Total541473325.9—

Jackett

 

Managerial record by team and tenure
TeamFromToRecord
PWDLWin %
Watford21 May 199612 May 19975722191638.6
Swansea City5 April 200415 February 200715669404744.2
Millwall6 November 20077 May 20133071307410342.3
Wolverhampton Wanderers31 May 201329 July 201615069433846.0
Rotherham United21 October 201628 November 201650140.0
Portsmouth2 June 2017Present251131144.0
Total69830217821843.3

Stubbs

Managerial record by team and tenure
TeamFromToRecordRef
PWDLWin %
Hibernian24 June 20141 June 201610058192358.0[46]
Rotherham United1 June 201619 October 20161413107.1[46]
Total11459223351.8—

 

Or you can look at this this way - % of games lost:

Stubbs - 90.0%

Jackett - 80% 

Warne - 61%

But look at the number of games played before KJ figure he was batting on a loosing wicket and the number of games it took TS to sack Stubbs. % work how you want them to work. For the number of games lost over an extended period Warne should be on borrowed time. If he wasn't the cheap option he'd have walked  sorry been pushed in the summer.



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gazmadmiller
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wont let me update but here is the RUFC over all managerial stats (bit out of date no stats from this season)

Managerial statistics[edit]

As of 1 June 2017
NameNatFromToRecord
PWDLWin %
Billy Heald 1 August 19251 March 192916555387233.33
Stan DaviesWales1 March 192931 May 19305918122930.51
Billy Heald 1 August 193031 December 193315049277432.67
Reg FreemanEngland1 January 19341 August 19525232529717448.18
Andy SmailesEngland1 August 195231 October 19582781095011939.21
Tom JohnstonScotland1 December 19581 July 196217463476436.21
Danny WilliamsEngland1 July 19621 February 196512553215142.40
Jack MansellEngland1 August 196531 May 19679634273535.42
Tommy DochertyScotland1 November 196730 November 19685216171930.77
Jim McAnearneyScotland1 December 19681 May 197324092668238.33
Jimmy McGuiganScotland1 May 197313 November 19793411319111938.42
Ian PorterfieldScotland30 December 197930 June 19817132211845.07
Emlyn HughesEngland1 July 198121 March 19838431213236.90
George KerrScotland21 March 198331 May 198512444305035.48
Norman HunterEngland18 June 19859 December 198713743415331.39
John BreckinEngland9 December 198723 December 198720020.00
Dave CusackEngland23 December 19871 April 19881758429.41
Billy McEwanScotland1 April 19881 January 199114754425136.73
Phil HensonEngland1 January 199114 September 199419975556937.69
John McGovern / Archie GemmillScotland14 September 199431 July 199610436313734.62
Danny BergaraUruguay1 August 199624 May 1997507142914.00
Ronnie MooreEngland24 May 199731 January 200539814312113435.93
Alan Knill (Caretaker)England31 January 20057 April 20057420193527.03
Mick HarfordEngland7 April 200510 December 200526581319.23
Alan KnillEngland10 December 20051 March 20076418172928.13
Mark RobinsEngland1 March 20079 September 200912956304343.41
Steve Thornber (Caretaker)England9 September 200926 September 2009312033.33
Ronnie MooreEngland26 September 200921 March 20118736213041.38
Andy Liddell (Caretaker)England25 March 201115 April 2011411225.00
Andy ScottEngland16 April 201117 March 20124615141732.61
Darren Patterson (Caretaker)Northern Ireland19 March 201211 April 2012540180.00
Steve EvansScotland9 April 201228 September 201517372455641.62
Eric Black (Caretaker)Scotland1 October 20159 October 201510010.00
Neil RedfearnEngland9 October 20158 February 201621521423.81
Neil WarnockEngland11 February 201618 May 20161666437.50
Alan StubbsEngland1 June 201619 October 20161413107.14
Paul Warne (Caretaker)England19 October 201621 October 20160000—
Kenny JackettWales21 October 201628 November 201650140.00
Paul WarneEngland28 November 2016 29442113.79



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smiler
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No offence Derby but I think win ratio is a terrible measure of whether a manager is good or not. You can't blame Warne at all for last season. I could argue that this season his win ratio in League One is 8 out of 19 which is pretty good. About 42%. Nigel Clough has won 3 out of 19 games this season with Burton. Dyche has a career ration of 41%. Is Warne a better manager than Clough? Or Dyche? The crude win ratio stat takes no account of all the complexities around the leagues managers have operated in, the clubs they are at and their relative budgets etc. Out of context they are almost a meaningless measure.



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NewYorkshire
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Get the King back. His two spells were excellent and under ****house owners

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hillsborough miller
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The only person to blame for all this is one person and one person only Drum roll please and that person is TONY STEWART he employed a man whose experience for the job was ex player COME fitness coach and the most important thing CHEAP So Tony in your mind has your plan to go with the cheap method worked. So far yes Season ticket sales only dropped a bit Nys giving revenue excluding rufc Transfers sale to date 1.5 million with sale of d ward so our share was 750k in the bank and he then spends a 10th on proctor who through no fault of his own is out for season realistically Warne on rolling contract so not much compo to pay when he sacks him Wolves are circling indeed they are As Paul is the one who picks the team but has tong given a proper cash budget to buy players for a top 5 finish erm no

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smiler
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Where is Darren Patterson now? He was the man!

Win ratios are rubbish. According to the win ratio measure, Phil Henson was a slightly better manager of RUFC than Neil Warnock.



-- Edited by smiler on Monday 27th of November 2017 07:31:20 AM

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NewYorker
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hillsborough miller wrote:

The only person to blame for all this is one person and one person only Drum roll please and that person is TONY STEWART he employed a man whose experience for the job was ex player COME fitness coach and the most important thing CHEAP So Tony in your mind has your plan to go with the cheap method worked. So far yes Season ticket sales only dropped a bit Nys giving revenue excluding rufc Transfers sale to date 1.5 million with sale of d ward so our share was 750k in the bank and he then spends a 10th on proctor who through no fault of his own is out for season realistically Warne on rolling contract so not much compo to pay when he sacks him Wolves are circling indeed they are As Paul is the one who picks the team but has tong given a proper cash budget to buy players for a top 5 finish erm no

 There's also money we collected from Preston for Fisher ( £300K ),we must be one of the few league 1 clubs in a strong position to buy players.Was the reason for appointing Warne so the chairman could control outgoing funds? Managers who may have been interested would be put off  by lack of funding a realistic budget.We must have a complete clearout including the CE.Otherwise there is only one way we are going.



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Exetermiller
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We are where we are in terms of financial clout, but there is absolutely no excuse for the defensive errors we make. I don't buy it that L1 players will make more, as Warney says. The reptitive errors from the same scenarios is rank bad coaching, not just from our lot but what a player has had historically (more so), which suggests we're not shopping at Harrods!

I'm getitng quite concerned with our total inability to land our intended targets, not 3rd or 4th choice or worse, but the main or 2nd in line. I remember when someone on here published the accounts and there were some real bizarre things on there to do with pensions and loans but I forget exactly what it was.

I've been saying it since Evans left, we're in financial poo - that's the reason. As soon as people stop looking at our rented ground thinking its ours and smell the coffee - people are going to continue to be let down and frustrated.

I thought we played some real positive football at the start, yeah we won & lost in equal measure but it gave us optimism and entertainment. Ryan Williams has gone from a 9 out of 10 to non existent in the last 8-9 games. Vaulks and Forde wouldn't get in my 5 a side team, Frecks and Wood are way past their best, Potter is not interested anymore and likewise with Moore I think they just want January to arrive so they can leave. It is by any stretch of the imagination a seriously poor quality squad. The 2 times I've seen us do well in this league, we've bludgeoned our way through it - that's what works at this level. Even Paul Hurst would look hard in this team. I don't expect any serious activity in January, and it appears it's going to be a fire fighting season again.

The buzz word of incremental seems to have been put in the rubbish bin

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hillsborough miller
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Totally agree totally **** poor planning top to bottom

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hillsborough miller
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We have two clueless men in charge Tony no idea how to run a club Paul no idea how to manage one Stop the bull**** on the media Stop playing forde who scouted this player

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