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Topic: World Trade Centre 9/11 collapse explained

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jimmy lallacs
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World Trade Centre 9/11 collapse explained
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The shocking scene of a towering icon inexplicably collapsing to ground zero in front of our eyes leaves us demanding answers from proven experts.

Watch the  destruction of her dreams here :- www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzZl9j580tM

Some top neurologists are suggesting Vascular Dementia as a probable cause of Hillary's recent strange behaviour.

In view of this diagnosis of her incapacity do we think President Trump should pardon the Clintons for their 'misdemeanours'?



-- Edited by jimmy lallacs on Monday 12th of September 2016 03:27:15 PM

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NewYorkshire
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If Trump gets in there will be ground zeros all over the place - he's likely to trigger WWIII

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Exetermiller
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Can he really be as war mongering as what Bush was? How he and Blair escaped The Hague to this day baffles me

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NewYorkshire
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He will definitely outdo Bush - he's likely to nuke the Mexicans! Some of the things he's said are frankly scary and with that nutcase in North Korea and Putin we will have three volatile trigger happy leaders. N Korea has to be invaded by the Chinese soon for sure before the south and the Yanks do it post November should he win. Can't have American tanks on chinese border.

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ian
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I dont trust either of em equally.


As for HC and her team they need to come clean. Something has very definitely be going on health wise with her for sometime. Its now so bad and has been escalating that one needs to ask if she could see out a full term.

If Trump wins then its because the world has become so dumbed down and divisive we need a person like him in the worlds most influential country ...will he heal any divides ? Who knows, but its a fact he said all those years ago that he would only every run for president if he felt the country was going to the dogs, and lets be clear, it really is.

If Trump wins it may actually be good over the longer term because if he doesnt the relentless tide of neo social justice and cultural obliteration will continue at such a pace that the next president will be ruling over half the states...Secession will become a very real reality one way or another.



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Brinnie Boy
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jimmy lallacs wrote:

The shocking scene of a towering icon inexplicably collapsing to ground zero in front of our eyes leaves us demanding answers from proven experts.

Watch the  destruction of her dreams here :- www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzZl9j580tM

Some top neurologists are suggesting Vascular Dementia as a probable cause of Hillary's recent strange behaviour.

In view of this diagnosis of her incapacity do we think President Trump should pardon the Clintons for their 'misdemeanours'?



-- Edited by jimmy lallacs on Monday 12th of September 2016 03:27:15 PM

I always though that the towering icons collapsed because airliners laden with aviation fuel crashed into them.

Your post is the only thing that leaves me demanding answers.

Which top neurologists are making the suggestion that Hilary Clinton has vascular dementia?  What is the strange behaviour that they are relying upon?

Are you a member of Donald Trump's campaign team?  If you are, could you quickly explain how Mexico is going to pay for the wall?



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ian
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I suppose it's possible that a tariff is put on border crossing and the Mexican government would be under pressure to subsidise...

HC: Those prolonged coughing fits and absences and faints don't fit pneumonia.

She could be simply exhausted and have lots of minor underlying issues, but all the same, is she well enough for a term?

In terms of the WTC , I think there's enough evidence to question official reports. 

 

Clearly plane's flew in to the towers, but their collapse and that of other buildings is unaccountable it seems to me. I haven't seen anyone actually say that the way they collapsed was expected. Granted this doesn't mean anything other than that, but maybe there was a degree of manipulation linked to knowledge of the attacks. This isn't too far fetched as not only have complex coups been manufactured but also every week we are told such and such a plan to blow such and such up has been foiled. I think there's enough uncertainty to keep an open mind.



-- Edited by ian on Tuesday 13th of September 2016 07:06:02 PM



-- Edited by ian on Tuesday 13th of September 2016 07:12:07 PM

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NewYorkshire
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WTC collapse is definitely iffy - free fall collapse of steel framed buildings. And then WTC 7 - not hit but has fires, collapses in free fall in 7 seconds - zero resistance. Pentagon hit by plane - but zero debris when it should have a 50 ft high tail section sticking out of the hole - plane crash sites are strewn with debris - this had nada. I don't know the answer but thousands of engineers and physicists in USA don't buy the report. Report: "No trace of explosives or thermitics in WTC7" Scientists: "Did you look for this?" Report: "No". Military exercise on same day mimicking plane****ting New York, interceptors not scrambled due to exercise going on... They've never really done an independent scientific investigation - and the WTC debris was removed and recycled in days. I'll put me tin foil hat back on now...

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smiler
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If anyone wants to believe that the US authorities were involved in allowing innocent thousands of their own innocent people to die on that day then no amount of evidence will convince them otherwise. Some people just prefer a good conspiracy theory. Myself, I think it's a ridiculous proposition. Unthinkable. They wouldn't have had to go to those lengths to sway public support, if that's what you believe it was all about. It makes no sense at all. More often than not the blindingly obvious explanation is the real one. By the way, the Clinton speculation is just that - speculation based on politically driven leaks and misinformation. And Trump is a very dangerous man indeed. The fact that he gets as much support as he does is scary, whether he wins or not. God help us all if he does.

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Millmoormagic
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smiler wrote:

If anyone wants to believe that the US authorities were involved in allowing innocent thousands of their own innocent people to die on that day then no amount of evidence will convince them otherwise. Some people just prefer a good conspiracy theory. Myself, I think it's a ridiculous proposition. Unthinkable. They wouldn't have had to go to those lengths to sway public support, if that's what you believe it was all about. It makes no sense at all. More often than not the blindingly obvious explanation is the real one. By the way, the Clinton speculation is just that - speculation based on politically driven leaks and misinformation. And Trump is a very dangerous man indeed. The fact that he gets as much support as he does is scary, whether he wins or not. God help us all if he does.

 What he ^^ said, in my view anyone advocating Trump must be an idiot, pure and simple, that's not to say Clinton is the saviour of good old USA, far from it probably. 

This world is being evermore divided by forces we as normal folk cannot really comprehend, and there will be an ultimate reason for this division...Stop watching and listening to mainstream media, the world whether you like it or not is owned by the banks, and they have a vested interest in all things capitalist, which of course includes sending nation against nation etc, creating recessions across the globe etc etc.

 

That's my thought for the day! of to work shortly to maintain the capitalist ideal.



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ian
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But hasnt Britain and the US and no doubt most every other country killed its own citizens throughout history?

Not only are we as humans capable of any atrocity , those with power and some immunity frequently will. We could talk about those things done and hidden in wars and all manner of skirmishes but to be precise and ignore all the slaughter lets look at this list:



www.washingtonsblog.com/2015/02/x-admitted-false-flag-attacks.html


so, I may be quite naive to think that there are people who can actually formulate a plan and carry it out on such a scale as 9/11...or, I may just be stating something quite obvious given the evidence of our planets history.

After all, these powerful men and women are not like the normal people. They are in power because of their ability. Its is there job. They play risk games and death games all the time. The known the rules like we know our own jobs and their limits...its a different world than our everyday world. we are so far removed...look at the British government paedophile cover up, and in our home town...is it really naive to suspect huge collaboration, cover ups, bullying, silencing, fear, murder when they have unlimited power and resources.

One thing it is not I believe is far fetched.




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smiler
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The 9/11 conspiracy theory really is far fetched.

For the conspiracy theorists to be right a big number of people would have had to be in on the planning of the event. Potentially the plane hijackers who killed themselves into the bargain, airline security, people in the military, people in the security forces, people in government, people who planted the controlled explosives, the scientists and others who investigated and reported afterwards.

It is just ludicrous to suppose that so many people would willingly engage in the deliberate slaughter of thousands of innocents to create a political tension, when there were so many more ways that were so much easier that would have achieved the same thing.

It is equally far fetched to think that they could all cover it up so successfully for so long without just one of them breaking ranks. Imagine having that on your conscience. The theories persist because ultimately it is difficult to prove a negative i.e you can't prove 100% it wasn't a conspiracy, and there will always be some who hang on to that as fuel for their scepticism.

The assassination of one targeted individual for example would have done that and would have been much easier to plan and execute. That is the basis of course of some of the JFK conspiracy theories. But lets not go there.

It might make for decent TV and a decent debate in the pub over a pint or two, and perhaps some entertaining posts on message boards, but it really is nonsense and it is getting a bit tired since it gets repeated at this time every year. I wish that people would spend more time exposing and discussing real issues that are happening every day right in front of our eyes in the here and now.

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ian
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I dont think you have took account of all the historic evidence that we now have access to from released files and the site I pointed to above.

dont get me wrong, Im not one way or tother, but it clearly has happend many times and the scale of cover up when power and unanimity is involved is perhaps under played/misunderstood.

Take any normal work place. It only takes one bully, abuser to damage sometimes hundreds of people. How does this happen?

Its self evident.

people are afraid.
people are constrained by systems and consequences
People are inherently disbelieving of others.
the weight of evidence for something has to be considerable more than that against it.

my logical conclusion based on the empirical and experiential data Ive alluded to leaves me in no doubt that 9/11 could easily have been planned by just a handful of people with direct knowledge. Operatives, are out there even now, killing, spying and maintaining secrets for their whole lives driven by ideology. I wonder if you can believe this or think its not really happening in our world?

So, the 9/11 may or may not have been internally driven and executed but they certainly have the power and ability to do so. History is of full of examples of far greater feats of skulduggery and influence over others.



-- Edited by ian on Thursday 15th of September 2016 01:40:56 PM

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jimmy lallacs
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Smiler says “ The 9/11 conspiracy theory really is far fetched.”

 

I can agree with him there.

 

I don’t believe a conspiracy of 19 Saudis caused the entire NORAD system to be compromised into allowing four airliners to be hijacked and crashed, one of them into the most heavily defended building on earth.

 

Smiler says ” a big number of people would have had to be in on the planning of the event”

 

I agree with him there as well. Although, with compartmentalisation, fewer perhaps than the 130.000 who kept the secret of the Manhattan Project in the 1940s.

 

Smiler says “ (How) they could all cover it up so successfully for so long without just one of them breaking ranks.”

 

Here’s where I have a difficulty.

Smiler surely cannot ignore the testimony of countless whistleblowers.

Barry Jennings, Avril Gollop, Mike Springman, Sibil Edmonds, Susan Lindauer and Bill Bergman among others.

I can’t believe that in his reviewing of the incident he has missed them.

He is either not being honest with us or is ignorant of the facts.


I prefer to believe he’s allowed TV rather than research form his opinions.



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smiler
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Classic conspiracy theory stuff Jimmy.

You present a classic either or argument -either I am not being straight with you or I don't know what I am talking about. There is another possibility though. I am being straight and have looked into it but just don't agree with your conclusions about what you regard as evidence.

The world of espionage and world politics surely is a murky one. I am under no illusions about that. I am equally sure that there is plenty of incompetence and some big mistakes made. But I am as sure as I can be that there was no top level conspiracy to allow people to fly planes into the twin towers, kill thousands and then blow the buildings up for good measure.

You think otherwise and good luck to you.





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NewYorkshire
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I think it would have been reasonable and fair to carry out a scientific investigation around the whole affair of collapsing buildings. Building 7 was not hit by anything and was some way from the WTC - it was on fire but not a raging fire and then collapsed perfectly on itself in just under 7 seconds in perfect free fall, no blips or stuttering as lower floors were hit etc. It's also the only steel framed skyscraper to ever collapse after fire - many have been burnt out but the physics rule out collapse with assistance. Thermitic material filmed still burning 2 days after collapse and all debris recycled immediately in China. I don't know what to believe but they shut the M1 for hours after an accident - this should have been months and months of forensic examination. They did none and never attempted to look for explosives or residues etc. Shoddy work...

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NewYorkshire
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9/11 Commission Hearing At the closed-door 9/11 Commission hearing, (Hero) Rodriguez testified under oath that explosions were going off in the basement of the North Tower before the first plane impacted the building. He explained in great detail to the Commissioners the numerous cases of serious injuries he had personally witnessed that were caused by these explosions. He even provided the panel with a list of firsthand witnesses to the explosions, people who were ready to testify under oath. One of the individuals Rodriguez recommended the panel summon was his friend and fellow employee, John Mongello. Mongello was in the lobby of the neighboring South Tower when the first aircraft plowed into the North Tower where Rodriguez was located. It would be another sixteen minutes before the second aircraft would rip into the one Mongello was in. Yet, within a minute of the first plane hitting the North Tower, an elevator in the South Tower exploded to smithereens right before his eyes! Mongello and others were literally blown backwards by the blast, as people—many, horribly burned—began to run willy-nilly shrieking in pain, shock, and sheer terror. Thick, black smoke could be seen billowing out of the now exposed elevator shaft, and the pungent smell of “gunpowder” was very evident. Again, just as with the North Tower, this explosion occurred inside a building that had not yet been struck by a plane! How could a plane crashing into the North Tower possibly have caused elevators in the South Tower to explode? The esteemed 9/11 Commission never bothered to ask. Worse, and to his utter disbelief, Rodriguez later discovered that his statements were completely omitted from the official record. As a result, not one word of this decorated hero’s startling testimony appeared in the much-ballyhooed 9/11 Commission Report, a do***ent that continues to be touted as “the most detailed, definitive study of the events of 9/11.” Furthermore, Rodriguez was told, quite emphatically, not to speak about the explosions to others until “further investigations” had been carried out. As the world knows, this has yet to happen. As a result of much public pressure, the Commission’s investigation records were finally made public—seven years later, in January 2009. Rodriguez was stunned to find that his testimony was among those marked “restricted,” and thus inaccessible to the public. His crucial evidence remains restricted to this day.

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smiler
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I don't especially want to keep the 9/11 conspiracy/not conspiracy thread going NY, but for every bit of material that hints at a conspiracy there is material to counteract it.

There is a lot of material available addressing the claims made by Mr Rodriguez about his part in 9/11.

The room for conspiracy theory will always be there because it is always possible to conflate evidence that might be unreliable - some of it genuinely unclear and maybe some of it deliberately misleading - and come up with alternative theories.

Everybody is entitled to make their own minds up.

Moving back to Trump, we see another example today of why I think he is dangerous. I don't mean to suggest that he is deliberately going to wreak havoc. I am sure he thinks he is doing the right things. I don't question that. But he has shown time and time again that his idea of diplomacy is to attack people/countries/groups aggressively with outlandish statements and then row back from them but at the same time blame the media or others to deflect attention away from himself.

Today someone on his behalf (note) has said that Trump now accepts that Obama was born in the US. Trump was a cheerleader in the Birther movement previously, but now he needs to appear more presidential. His spokesman says that it was right and courageous for Trump to bring the issue to the forefront, and that in fact it was Hillary Clinton who was primarily responsible for the Birther theory (in fact there is not a scrap of evidence to suggest that she ever did or said a single thing in that direction). Trump politics in action. Similar to him characterising Mexicans as rapists, criminals etc then visiting Mexico and shaking lots of hands and smiling and behaving as though he never said it. Like personally attacking the Fox presenter Megan (spelling?) Kelly in the most disgusting way because he didn't like her questions, then staging an interview when he tried to cosy up to her as if it was all a little misunderstanding. It is his style.

I am not a big Clinton fan by any means, but the prospect of Trump heading the US frightens the life out of me based on what he has demonstrated so far in terms of his style of politics, never mind his policies (such as they are). In my opinion the world doesn't need it. I think he is going to win though.

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NewYorkshire
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We are both in agreement over trump - he a racist and has little grasp of world politics and will be a shocking leader - the CIA will no doubt have to bump him off if he wins! 😀 (A future conspiracy theory lol)

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ian
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Good evidence NY

Its the same with the clear explosions and material coming our of the towers nowhere near the impacts and not in conjunction with the timing.

My best conspiracy guess is that the US secret service new about the plans and simply let it go and helped it along its way. Of course not to know about the plans is itself far-fetched as we sure as hell have been treated to one foiled attempt story after another with very specific Intel before and since. But, once again, no enquiry into how this one got past them all...

If all the eye witness accounts are accepted and there appears little reason to doubt them as this is how justice is arrived at everyday, then its plausible it was a conspiracy . It would only take a decision to let it develop , which is easily justified in the strategic rooms and then have a covert selected team of patriots (which obviously are people of high intense emotion and belief and specifically picked and trained) to rig the buildings, (perhaps the other buildings were insurance policy as one cannot wholly predict the skill of the pilot of unforeseen cir***stances) The only thing you would then have to make room for is that people are prepared to sacrifice others for the "greater good" wry smile.



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