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Millers Banter: Unofficial Rotherham United Fans Forum / Message Board → OT Discussion → EU Referendum Vote 23rd June 2016 - Will all hell break loose if we leave the EU?
 

Topic: EU Referendum Vote 23rd June 2016 - Will all hell break loose if we leave the EU?

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sickly child
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EU Referendum Vote 23rd June 2016 - Will all hell break loose if we leave the EU?
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I would have voted remain I choose not to vote as I did not think it fair as it would not particularly effect me. I fear that this will force the Tories to the right and things will get worse for the working man as well as the NHS being dismantled.

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smiler
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Wow. Brexit. A leap into the unknown. Markets down 8% and pound down 6% already. Messages of congratulations from Le Pen and the like. The working man has lashed out in an anti-establishment vote. EU and immigration scapegoated when austerity and right wing politics and economics are the real cause of the problem out there. Those who maintained that we can thrive and prosper out of the largest free market in the world had better be right. Time will tell.

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sickly child
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Can't disagree with that Smiler.

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ian
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All will be well. We have survived countless bad governments because we can vote them in and out. Now we have our democracy back it will be much better feeling wise.

The UK will be fine economically. Its a natural fear and excitement response at change and uncertainty. Its always uncertain and we have hardly had the greatest of times over the last 20 years (just to suggest its much of a muchness).

It would be nice if the leaders on both sides could just tone it down now and have some reflection about bringing the message together and as much as I quite like Farage , I hope he uses his undoubted skills to promote a positive decision that many of us have made and not the negative one

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Towdlad
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A level headed and responsible post ian, spot on mate

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S8Miller
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smiler wrote:

Wow. Brexit. A leap into the unknown. Markets down 8% and pound down 6% already. Messages of congratulations from Le Pen and the like. The working man has lashed out in an anti-establishment vote. EU and immigration scapegoated when austerity and right wing politics and economics are the real cause of the problem out there. Those who maintained that we can thrive and prosper out of the largest free market in the world had better be right. Time will tell.

 

It seems the markets have shrugged off the earlier panic selling,  FTSE is now higher than it was 5 days ago.  Pound is at a level it was in February and has been before in recent memory.  I wish the media would look at the facts and not lead with doom mongering, catastrophic headlines.  The birdcage has been smacked, feathers are bound to fly but things will settle down, the sun will still rise and Britain will still trade with Europe and the rest of the world.



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smiler
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Immigration contributes a substantial net positive amount to our economy. Immigrants pay more in tax than they cost in services. That is a fact. The idea that they are taking our jobs, putting excess demand on our services etc is simply wrong. Farage has been allowed to get away with misinformation. Politicians decided a long time ago that saying anything positive about immigration is not a vote winner and the Remain camp failed to challenge the false arguments. We need immigration to create growth. Growth creates the wealth and jobs we need. The vote leavers in the northern towns and cities have lashed out and tipped the balance, but they will now reap what they have sown. The cause of their problems is not immigration or Europe, it is austerity and lack of investment, it is inequality between north and south and rich and poor. The consequence of this vote will be economic contraction, probably more austerity for longer, even worse public services, and worse than they have now. People have cut off their noses to spite their faces. Cameron sold his soul to get elected and it has backfired massively. Corbyn has run a half hearted campaign because his heart wasn't in it. I doubt that there is any going back now, and I feel bitter that my kids' futures have been damaged.

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Jolly Roger
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That "fact" about immigrants paying in more than they take out is just propaganda unsupported by facts.

Fortunately 52% of the voters were smart enough to see beyond the lies.

What surprises me though is why the politicians seemed so shocked about it. For years now immigration issues have been brushed under the carpet by those preaching "multiculturalism" and none of them were listening to the concerns of folks living in areas where the immigrants are dumped, mainly the North of England

Ditto the voters of the North, ignored by all parties or called racist if they had the gall to suggest that overall EU immigration causes more negative points than positive points.

Ignore people at your peril, the voters want immigration controls, they want change, they don't want Cameron and Osborn and they certainly don't want that excuse called Corbyn.

Overall they don't want to be ignored or told how to think.

You reap what you sow.

Yesterday was harvest time

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smiler
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The overwhelming majority of studies on the subject from independent and reputable sources show that immigrants net contribute to a significant degree, and immigrants from EU member states particularly so.

We need growth. We have an aging population. Without growth was are not sustainable as a nation, unless people are happy to accept dire public services and/or much higher taxation. I do not know where our growth will come from. We simply do not have enough people of working age in work and paying tax. I have not heard a single positive case on that from the Leave side. I have heard 'it will all be ok', but that ignores basic economics that suggest otherwise.

It took about an hour for the Leave lie about the money that would be released for the NHS to be exposed as such, by Farage himself. A mealy mouthed comment on the basis that he didn't promise it and would never have said it. He never countered that narrative at the time though did he? In truth that money will now be spent very quickly several times over plugging gaps all over the economy as in due course our cost of living goes up, public expenditure rises and tax take goes down. In truth (ironically) it is the economies in the more depressed areas of the country that have benefited most from inward investment from the institution they have just voted to leave.

Be in no doubt that Farage is a clever, manipulative and wealthy career politician.

Turning in frustration to a movement fronted by a bloke who demonises the different, blames them for society's ills and comes within a hairs breadth of saying 'they are stealing our jobs and houses and taking our benefits' (if he hasn't actually said it) should not be the way forward for this or any country. Better politics, less inequality and more humanity should. But - and perhaps you and I can agree on this one point Jolly - our politicians have very much let us down.






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Towdlad
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Today I have my country back. I have a say on policies that effect our ability to trade with the world, on policies that effect our day to day lives. I have a say on rules, laws and regulations introduced by a democratic parliament, elected by the people for the people, not faceless unelected wealthy career EU commissioners, sponsored by Goldman Sachs, et al.

Today I no longer have to worry about TTIP and whether giant American multinationals can take over any business in my country and then have the right, in law, to sue my government to such an extent that it could bankrupt my country, if it didnt get its own way.

Today we have voted to break free from a neo-liberal organisation that bankrupt Greece and then punished the Greek people for having the audacity to vote for an anti austerity government, by flogging off the countries assets.

I'm old enough to remember a Britain before the EU. It was not perfect but we were a country of innovation and manufacturing with highly skilled men and women. Thriving communities and well paid jobs. Our decline was exacerbated by our EU membership who imposed quotas on steel production, car manufacture and our huge fishing industry was devastated. Our ability to build our own country was taken away from us.

Britain has always stood on its own two feet, the fifth largest economy in the World and today the world is once again our oyster.

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Heman
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We can reopen the mines and have coal powered power stations if we want.

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Andy Monium
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Andy's Bulldog.jpg

 

 

There's still life in the Old Bulldog even today.



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Jolly Roger
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Amazing how folks believe that duff about immigrants being net positive contributors to the UK

A fine example of repeat a lie often enough and it becomes a true fact. Even the lie tellers convince themselves.



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sickly child
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While I disagree with Jolly he does make a valid point when it comes to successive governments ignoring the working mans concerns especially regarding fears of immigration. basically this has been the working class telling the establishment to go and F themselves. However, I think this will be a disaster for them as Boris and co will no shiet all over them. Very sad day in my opinion.

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NewYorkshire
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If you look at any history book we used to practically run the world. We will be fine.

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Exetermiller
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I'm a leaver. But yesterday was a surprise. My vote yesterday was not a protest vote. Luckily I'm educated enough to foresee some of the effects of what my vote does. Initial turmoil in the markets, devaluing the pound, middle term down growth, possible recession, and probably a breakaway of Scotland from the United Kingdom.

Having said all that, the long term of being a member of the EU club, spells outright destruction. Each treaty comes along and the institution embeds its grubby little fingers into more and more of its member countries pies. They won't move towards a European super state as the net long term contributors and larger economies will go the same way we do, no matter how hard the EU make it for them to leave. The EU will be left with a state which includes the poorest nations of the continent & lets see how important it is then to be a member of the club, when it crashes into destruction in its eyeballs in debt.

Leave was the lesser of 2 evils. This way we get an initial hit, but a head start. Your computer with more use gets full of rubbish up to a point it starts crashing and you have to reinstall. That's where we are at, we'll suffer the pain of reinstallation, but if done properly and by people who know what they're doing we'll end up in a better place with all our do***ents & pictures back in the same place.

We will have to change and adapt as a country but our great people are more than capable, have done it many times before and now the focus needs to be reuniting the divides in our nation. Much like a faltering Rotherham United, get everyone focused in the same direction and you can achieve far beyond expectation. What is done is done, we now need to make it work the best for us, while watching from our island surround all implode around us

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Andy Monium
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Returning to the original question, 'Will all hell break loose if we leave the EU?'

 

Most of the MPs who nailed their true colours to the mast of the Steam Ship Remain may have to fight to regain the confidence

of the people in their respective constituencies. 

Those MPs have not listened to the electorate.

Those MPs have misjudged the electorate.

Those MPs are totally dis-connected from the electorate.

Those MPs have taken the electorate for granted.

 

Hell hath no fury like a voter scorned.

 

Heaven on Earth.jpg



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oneaday
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Would you? I think I would!

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oneaday
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On a serious note, once the dust has settled we won't notice any difference. We will secure a free trade deal with the EU without having to concede the free movement of people. You can't take the Norway deal has precedence as our economy is so much bigger. We will still have high levels of immigration but it will be from all over the world and not just Europe and will be more selective.

Students will still be able to study where they want to.

This will prove to be a good move for us and we will see other EU nations following suit. The tide is turning.

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ian
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oneaday wrote:

Would you? I think I would!

 is there a debate!

of course.



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