I'm not saying this defeat lies solely at the feet of Paul Green, but a player of his experience should know not to dither on the edge of his own area.
I don't see what he brings to the team but manager after manager keeps playing him. Why??
A familiar story Oneaday. He loses the ball in bad areas and it gets punished. It has happened far too often. When it comes to the attacking third sadly he hits the post, or he heads it just wide, or doesn't quite connect in front of an open goal. He is, I am afraid, the embodiment of our season. Not good enough. I am not going to hammer the guy. He is a good honest pro who gives his best, but he struggled last season and this was a season too far at this level.
I like him so maybe I can explain. It won't answer the issues he has but it's perhaps why he is played.
He is very honest and gets up and down more than any other midfielder. He will be in each box often , more than others.
He holds his position well and knows the role more than others. His distribution is generally safe and uncomplicated and allows us to tidy up possession.
Generally his overall play is more than good enough. He gets in more goalscoring opportunities than the strikers.
He never goes missing-ever.
He works well as a tight midfield pair which we need.
So, he has his weaknesses...with ward and frecklington their shouldn't be any issue with what the other half of a midfield 4-5 needs to have in its locker. His mistakes are more obvious due to his position but I think he might not make so many more than others. Watch G.Ward for example in terms of losing the ball...
-- Edited by ian on Wednesday 24th of February 2016 11:59:11 AM
Green plays cause we've got nobody else. When he came here start of last season same time as Richardson, they were both past it then. There's only Frecks to come in, need someone on loan ASAP. This season if we had kept Arnie to play at side of Smallwood midfield would have been alot stronger.
Totally agree Ian trouble now is alot of people are looking for a scapegoat and Green is it I call it short sightedness
I don't agree with this, it's not that we are looking for a scapegoat, it's not a personal attack on Green -it's a fact that his mistakes have cost us many many points this season. Other players make the odd mistake, he has made loads and loads and loads of mistakes that have resulted in the opposition scoring.
Just because we are not the Manager doesn't mean we as fans can't see the obvious. Having Green in the team does not work, the other issue at the back has been our lack of quality at full backs.
More recently, you can add that we are simply not taking the few chances we create, but not sure what we do about that. I am sure however that Green should, in my opinion, never kick another ball for the Millers.
Overall - our predicament is selling players we needed to keep (Prngle, Arni, Skars) and not buying those who would have improved the team (Hunt, Tavs, Dicko), so our issue is lack of money and whilst I love what the chairman has done - he knows this is the issue as much as any of us...
The three managers we have had have all given him Regular starts.
I would play him almost every game
Others dont like him because they think he doesnt work well with Smallwood.
Others think he is weak physically.
We all see different things.
what we can deffo agree on is your last observations.
We deffo have to be able to hang on to players.
some of the better players we have had should not and cannot be out of our league if we are ever serious about championship football.
Hence, I think TS needs to really get straight and take it on the chin. He has made some errors but good meaning ones and without him none of this is even possible. However, if we wants us to come up again and be better then the revenue has to increase. How he does that is anyones guess.
-- Edited by ian on Wednesday 24th of February 2016 07:32:07 PM
I am with Davidedin on this. Paul Green seems a good guy and he has had a good career. It isn't about personal attacks or scapegoating. I have never booed or got on the backs of our players and I won't do that with Green. I do however have a valid opinion that I can express in the right way. Players get rated out of ten in the national press every Sunday. They can handle it. NW had no problem saying that a bad mistake cost us something last night, and it was Green who made it. Attacking players can lose the ball in attacking areas, but midfielders must not lose the ball in defensive areas, Green does it a lot. He has a habit of freezing on the ball like a rabbit in the headlights. It has cost us goals. I said this on a thread a while ago and it remains true - when he gets the ball in front of the back four I hold my breath until he has moved it on safely. Last season was a struggle for him and this season his limitations have been badly exposed. The fact that he has been a regular says a lot about how weak we have been in the crucial central midfield area. I think it is time to thank him, wish him well and move on. Him and a few others.
I do remember the Watson stuff Len. No doubt there are some supporters who do like a scapegoat. Players are performers who we pay a lot of money to to see play and if people don't like what they see they feel entitled to say so. I don't think there is anything wrong with having honest opinions and discussing them on here or in the pub or what have you, as long as there is some reason behind it. On Paul Green it saddens me because I recognise his endeavour, but I think the evidence suggests that he isn't good enough (any more) to be in a Championship side. For me the line stops at (1) abuse rather than fair comment and (2) verbally barracking players at matches. I do also think that there is a tendency that comes from a gang mentality for supporters to find a common target which is unfortunate.
I do remember the Watson stuff Len. No doubt there are some supporters who do like a scapegoat. Players are performers who we pay a lot of money to to see play and if people don't like what they see they feel entitled to say so. I don't think there is anything wrong with having honest opinions and discussing them on here or in the pub or what have you, as long as there is some reason behind it. On Paul Green it saddens me because I recognise his endeavour, but I think the evidence suggests that he isn't good enough (any more) to be in a Championship side. For me the line stops at (1) abuse rather than fair comment and (2) verbally barracking players at matches. I do also think that there is a tendency that comes from a gang mentality for supporters to find a common target which is unfortunate.
unfortunately as in life if paul green has had a bad match and made mistakes that has cost us he gets slaughtered
It is a bit worse than that for Paul Green. He can have good matches and still make a costly mistake. He was terrific in the first half against QPR but made a sloppy mistake early in the second and they scored directly from it, and it changed the whole course of the game. I didn't go to Reading but Kevin Watson was singing his praises, then exactly the same thing happens. Against Ipswich he mis-controls a high ball in acres of space and five seconds later their lad has buried it in the bottom corner. Also against Ipswich he dithered on the ball, gave Collins a hospital pass, they cross it and in it goes again. A carbon copy of Ipswich happened two minutes after he came on at Bolton, but they put a glorious chance just wide. It is because the mistakes have been so costly and they have been repeated that he has come under the spotlight. The acid test is that based on recent expreience I feel very nervous when the ball comes to him in front of our back four, especially when he is facing his own goal. It is a shame, and I don't enjoy saying it, but there is no escaping it. If he gets picked I still get behind him, but personally I wouldn't pick him. I think it is fair enough to express that opinion.
Reading everyone's comments, which I accept as everyone is entitled to their opinion, and there are some very good points, here is my "two-pence" worth.
I think some people do point fingers at certain players a little too quickly and sometimes, IMO, unjustly.
Green, like a number of the guys at least tries to make something happen. These players take a chance to get the ball under control in tight positions to keep possession rather than "kicking into the stingers" because they are too frightened to make a mistake. Yes, he got caught Tuesday at Reading however, if he had smashed it out for a corner and they had scored from the resultant cross into the box, would the comments have been "he should have controlled that and not just kicked it away"? Probably!
JCH misses a penalty, ok, he should score but he didn't however, he did not hide, he stepped up, backed himself and took a chance. Yes, it finished in row Z but, he had a go and did not hide.
Newell at Burnley, a 30 yard run to bring down a great 40 yard pass from JCH with a sublime first touch, he then crashes a shot from 15 yards out inches wide while running a full pace. What do we say, "miss of the season", "easier to score", not one person (except the Burnley commentator on the player) said what a fantastic piece of skill and run it was to get into a shooting position. Newell is another guy who tries to play rather than panicking at every opportunity. Watch it back on the highlights, yes, he should have scored and probably would 9 times out of 10 but, he didn't, he tried to make something happen and really, if you have ever played the game, what a piece of skill.
Danny Ward, another prime contender for abuse. The guy runs his socks off, every game. He wins headers he should have no rights to even get close to yet, every time he goes down injured, "typical, there he goes again", "too soft" etc, etc. He puts everything into each game and unfortunately, you get hurt playing this way but, he's another who does not hide.
As the old saying goes, "show me someone that does not make a mistake and I'll show you someone that does nothing". You cannot play the game without the odd mistake during 90 minutes.
The teams trying and hurting as we are, ok, it's not looking good but for goodness sake, let's get behind the guys and accept things a little better when mistakes are made.
Anyhow, I'll get off my soap box now, as stated above, just my "two-pence" worth.
UTM.
-- Edited by Archie on Thursday 25th of February 2016 11:10:21 AM
Nice one Archie what you said is making me look at some things I say , with the predicament we're in we have got to get behind the lads and give them 100% support till end of season .
COME ON YOU REDS.
Balancing Archie's excellent post and Oneaday's opening post, I think it is fair to observe that whilst players must feel confident enough to take risks or try things, it has to be done in the right part of the pitch. Green will be disappointed himself that he had a touch too many on the edge of our own area and got his pocket picked. One touch later and it was in the back of the net. And it isn't the first time, so at some point it must be fair enough to question why it keeps happening. Just like if JCH missed four penalties in a row in the same manner you might feel entitled to ask why he was still taking them. Equally, whoever we turn out every week we have to get behind them come game time. We all want the same result at the end of the day.
too many people are defending Green on the basis of a witch hunt, I don't read anything like that on here. The only time I can recall him being personally attacked was one home game where he's was booed, and substituted at halftime. But that was because in that game he made several mistakes, two of which cost us goals, and fans were seeing this every game, it has cost us real points and we were getting frustrated.
So, take the view of ANY person doing a job for a living, and he is just getting paid for doing a job, If you make a mistake on a job that costs your company money (in this case points) you might have a word the first time, second and third time you put him on a warning, fourth time he is out....... same thing applies, our comments are based on he is directly and consistently costing us points.... our opinions are based on the assumption , based on our observations of real games, that without him in the team, we have a better chance of us not conceding so many goals.
If someone is costing your business money, and given every chance to change and every support you can give them, and don't change, and still cost your business money, you do not continue to use them.....
