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Topic: Rugger....

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Rugger....

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So, after all the northern hemisphere teams get knocked out, probably rightly so, the six nations is gunna be very good, England have something to prove, the jocks have just very nearly beat the aussies, the Welsh always up for it and the Irish another team with points to prove. Seems to me though that all the northern teams are actually getting a bit closer as a collective to those southerners! 



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The Six Nations will be very good MMM but it is a bit like the Championship in football. It is competitive, exciting and anyone in it could win it but none of the best teams are in it. The Southern Hemisphere teams are 5% better but at the top level that small margin makes a massive difference. Interesting also to see that as the game gets bigger it gets more like football - more cynical cheating, refs under more pressure, more media hype.

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maybe MMM ,but hasnt this gap been waxing and waning for the last 25 years or so. The England set up has threatened to end the kiwi and aussie domination in both codes but we have yet to get there.

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I agree Ian. I don't follow RL, but in Union we have been close to the Southern Hemisphere teams for a while but not quite able to get up with them. When we play them at home in the Autumn internationals it is usually nip and tuck (which is why we had a chance in this World Cup), but the unpalatable truth is that when it came to the crunch in games that really mattered we came up short as is almost always the case.

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smiler wrote:

I agree Ian. I don't follow RL, but in Union we have been close to the Southern Hemisphere teams for a while but not quite able to get up with them. When we play them at home in the Autumn internationals it is usually nip and tuck (which is why we had a chance in this World Cup), but the unpalatable truth is that when it came to the crunch in games that really mattered we came up short as is almost always the case.


 Yeh, and you know what, it's not really a difference in talent, it's exactly the same in our other main team sports, football and cricket, we just havent got the winning mentality, in our men's game's in particular. There are many many reasons for this, some differing between sports, but, more than anything, it's the male ego, and the fear of failure, we appear not to have any *******s anymore, yet our footballers, in the main, prance around caring only for their clubs, really, deep down, and they have lost that, or had trained out of them, hunger and bravery required to take that gamble, to try that trick they can pull off in training, and overall to play without fear, the whole team, to trust in every move by their team mates, they just won't do it.

We all have a part in all that, of course, when i hear 'fans' slagging players off for mistakes i just shake my head, any player in an England shirt daren't make a mistake for that fear, and being slaughtered by the media, who are the biggest culprits in all of this.



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Millmoormagic wrote:
smiler wrote:

I agree Ian. I don't follow RL, but in Union we have been close to the Southern Hemisphere teams for a while but not quite able to get up with them. When we play them at home in the Autumn internationals it is usually nip and tuck (which is why we had a chance in this World Cup), but the unpalatable truth is that when it came to the crunch in games that really mattered we came up short as is almost always the case.


 Yeh, and you know what, it's not really a difference in talent, it's exactly the same in our other main team sports, football and cricket, we just havent got the winning mentality, in our men's game's in particular. There are many many reasons for this, some differing between sports, but, more than anything, it's the male ego, and the fear of failure, we appear not to have any *******s anymore, yet our footballers, in the main, prance around caring only for their clubs, really, deep down, and they have lost that, or had trained out of them, hunger and bravery required to take that gamble, to try that trick they can pull off in training, and overall to play without fear, the whole team, to trust in every move by their team mates, they just won't do it.

We all have a part in all that, of course, when i hear 'fans' slagging players off for mistakes i just shake my head, any player in an England shirt daren't make a mistake for that fear, and being slaughtered by the media, who are the biggest culprits in all of this.


I agree with that as well MMM.  Fear of failure stifles that bit of creativity that can make the difference.  I sensed it a bit at NYS against Burnley.  The players were trying to pass more and better, and just before we equalised there were a few murmerings in the crowd when there were a couple of misplaced passes.  If we want players to be creative we have to accept it will go wrong sometimes and stay behind them.  It becomes a virtuous circle then - if they know they won't get hammered for trying things (in the right areas of course) they will develop the confidence to keep doing it.



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Agree smiler, and that is the same for every level you go to. Take the national team, as a perfect example, they're doing it again, right now, they've won ten on the bounce in qualifying, and, like in many other tournaments, have qualified with ease. That's because of the quality of opponent to some extent, but moreso the players confidence to go and play. When they actually get to tournaments, against much better opposition they freeze, also we can factor in the dull manager's with dull tactics we've had lately, and you get one thing, failure.

 

I'd love to see a whole bunch of youngsters played in the Euro's with a view to playing attacking football, absolutely love it.



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Living in the southern hemisphere you get a different perspective. Here everything is geared to the national team and not the clubs. The clubs are forced to rest All Blacks and NZRU decide when and where. Could you imagine Premier clubs being made to do that? However it works, plus All Blacks have to play in NZ to qualify for the ABs, keeping rugby strong in the country, I suppose its a case of priorities. I do know that if the ABs do not when the world cup the nation will go into a state of shock and mourning. On a personal note my wife will probably make my life miserable for a couple of weeks. Come on ABs!!!!!!!!!

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Some very interesting points there.  Millmoor's analysis is persuasive.  There does seem to be something in the English character which makes our sportsmen good "flat track bullies" but powder puffs when it really matters.



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Getting over the finishing line under pressure - that is a test of character. Sadly some great sportsmen over the years have had the talent to get them close but not the resilience to finish the job on the biggest occasions. As a moderate club golfer myself I have throw or nearly thrown away relatively meaningless games when nerves have overcome me. How you can even hold a club never mind swing it well when you need a par to win a Major under pressure is mind boggling. Even pros may wilt, and we have all seen it happen. Watching the RUWC, there was always a sense that England weren't going to get that last minute score to overcome Wales but that when their time came South Africa would. It felt inevitable.

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smiler wrote:

Getting over the finishing line under pressure - that is a test of character. Sadly some great sportsmen over the years have had the talent to get them close but not the resilience to finish the job on the biggest occasions. As a moderate club golfer myself I have throw or nearly thrown away relatively meaningless games when nerves have overcome me. How you can even hold a club never mind swing it well when you need a par to win a Major under pressure is mind boggling. Even pros may wilt, and we have all seen it happen. Watching the RUWC, there was always a sense that England weren't going to get that last minute score to overcome Wales but that when their time came South Africa would. It felt inevitable.


 Good points.  I ditched golf for just that reason.  I have to admit to being something of a "bottler" in various sports.  I tend to feel lousy when I lose and even more lousy when I win as I feel sorry for my opponent.



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Any final predictions (look forward to seeing Sickly's in the morning)? It should be a belter. I favour Aus to nick a tight game by two or three points. Something like 25-23.

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Half time and the ABs in control. Could never see them losing this, too strong for the Aussies and the Aussies have had 6 brutal games. Could be famous last words. 5:55 and the Mrs making bacon sarnies and the millers getting thumped, can't have everything I suppose.

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smiler wrote:

Any final predictions (look forward to seeing Sickly's in the morning)? It should be a belter. I favour Aus to nick a tight game by two or three points. Something like 25-23.


 Dear me.biggrinbiggrinbiggrinbiggrinbiggrin



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Yes, that's why I generally walk past Betfred and keep my money in my pocket Kid! All Blacks were a bit too good as Sickly says, although but for a late breakaway try it could have gone to the wire.

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smiler wrote:

Yes, that's why I generally walk past Betfred and keep my money in my pocket Kid! All Blacks were a bit too good as Sickly says, although but for a late breakaway try it could have gone to the wire.


 Sorry, Smiler - I have an unpleasant habit of being smart after the fact.



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