I'm interested in folks opinions on here regarding Jeremy Corbyn's victory in the Labour leadership race, i'm sure to get a broad raft of sensible opinion on Banter.
Personally, my politics are much more aligned to Jeremy Corbyn's than any other Labour leader in the past thirty odd years and i'm pleased he's won. For me he will be a breath of fresh air as a man of principle and belief, rather than the suited and booted careerist politicians you see these days. Whether he'll get a fair crack of the whip through the media is a different matter completely, and whether he can get his personality and beliefs across to the general public is also another story, maybe dependant on the media.
Although i think he is going to struggle to be elected as a prime minister, i think many of his policies would be good for the nation as a whole, to drag us back from the brink and get some real community back into the country, because as it is it's splitting apart.
While agree with much of what you say, I fear Labour have now handed the Tories a further term in office at the very least and maybe more. He is a conviction politician which is sadly lacking today as our politics moves more towards the American model of not saying anything too wayward so as to get slated in the press. The outcome is a lot of safe, dull politicians who have to watch every word they say and have to have the every move stage managed.
I think Corbyn will be a breath of fresh air but I fear his politics is way too far to the left for the majority of voters.
I'm kind of agreeing also, though it really shows what a sad state of affairs we have got ourselves into when we're resorting to 'americanesque' style politics. The optimist in me really wants to believe Corbyn can overcome that media negativity and can connect with folk, the realist in me probably thinks he won't, and yeh that probably means the tories are in for another term, but i truly hope the electorate get their British Balls back and vote for policy not bull****e.
Maybe Heman, what i do know is though that he's not the type for soundbites and bull ****e, that's why he'll be different, and that's why the media won't like his approach.
To be honest I think Corbyn's election says more about the quality of the other candidates, all of them in my opinion are no where near leadership material and Corbyn didn't have to do too much to see a pretty weak field off. Here's what will happen. Corbyn will probably take labour into the next election on a left wing agenda and lose heavily to the Tories. He will resign and another leadership election will take place with the eminently more electable Chuka Umunna stepping forward to take the crown.
The big problem as just about everyone knows is that he is unelectable.
One of the things that Blair is correct about is 'whats the point in having a party that cannot get elected'
I've heard that Corbyn is unelectable from many sources but I have never heard from anyone exactly why he is not electable. The stats say otherwise. Throughout his tenure as an MP for Islington North has consistently increased his majority to 21,194 when the rest of the Labour vote has been falling. He has just been elected as leader on a landslide majority of almost 60%, many of these votes coming from ordinary people, rather than the Parliamentary Labour Party, who failed to be elected in 2010 and more recently in May, and who were completely annihilated in Scotland, never before seen in the party's history. Clearly the Labour Party in it****herto form was CLEARLY UNELECTABLE.
I suspect what you mean is the media, particularly the Murdoch Empire will not allow him to be electable and starting today will move hell and high water to discredit and dig out any dirt of any kind see that he remains 'unelectable' (It Wuz the Sun Wot did it) which only goes to demonstrate the sad state of democracy and the political ignorance of the electorate of this country
Capitalism has for the last 30 years failed. Its proponents have robbed and asset stripped this country, to enrich themselves to hideous levels of self aggrandisement and personal wealth and if their business is a success they grab the profits and run avoiding paying tax as they do so. Conversely, when they fail the Government bail them out using our money. Win win win, for them, while we are told there is no alternative. Corbyn is saying to the people, yes there is an alternative, here are some ideas, lets examine them debate them and lets see what we can do - for everyone, not just the rich
Successive governments and politicians in general have become so entangled with rich lobbyists, media barons, and global conglomerates, that political debate has become a wishy washy non entity, they all look alike, talk alike, dress alike all make sure that when they leave politics there is a nice little earner lined up from alliances built while in Parliament, time that ought to have been spent representing us.
Corbyn has re energised politics and is offering an alternative to millions (and I'm one of them) who are no longer represented by the political rent chasers we've had up to now. Will it end in tears ? Probably, because the rich and powerful establishment will try to skew the debate and no doubt succeed, but every dog has its day. I'm looking forward to hearing someone speak for me and those like me, for a change, for a fair and just society for everyone. I'm with Millmoormagic on this one.
All very convincing and rousing stuff for your typical Labour voter Towdlad but unfortunately to win an election Corbyn will have to appeal to people who would not normally vote for him and to do that he is going to have to drop some of his VERY unpopular left wing ideas - like giving away our nuclear deterrent.
All very convincing and rousing stuff for your typical Labour voter Towdlad but unfortunately to win an election Corbyn will have to appeal to people who would not normally vote for him and to do that he is going to have to drop some of his VERY unpopular left wing ideas - like giving away our nuclear deterrent.
I really respect your views S8, given your replies here, what would Corbyn have to do to convince you to vote for him, because it seems to me people like you are maybe the ones for him to convince?
You are probably right in some respects, but the nuclear deterrent is a case in point. £25bn-ish for something which will never be used.
During the Falklands conflict I remember a radio phone-in about the war. A guy rang up and posed the question if we have a nuclear deterrent why not nuke Buenos Aires, have done with it, saving British lives. The presenter said 'dont be so stupid' and cut him off. He was, I believe, trying to making a valid point, who exactly has it deterred. Not Nasser in '56 or the Mau Mau in the congo as was, not the IRA, Argentina didn't give a fig, Iraq in either the 1st or 2nd Gulf war, or Al Qaeda, Isis, nor the Taliban in Afghanistan.
More recently on Radio 4 Question Time a question was put to the panel 'In what cir***stances would the panel expect the nuclear deterrent to be used?' The panel included Hilary Benn, and Paddy Ashdown and others, all put forward good reasons to have it, but no one could possibly answer the question, when would it be used.
So my point is, if the majority of the public were to engage themselves in informed debate about Trident and all the other issues put forward by Corbyn and really thought about things, I am sure they may well hold a different opinion, that would be democracy at work. Instead, most are disinterested or lazy and just trot out the old worn out platitudes, read and remembered from the Express, Sun or Daily Mail and vote the way they have always done. Hence the mantra, 'He's unelectable' they've heard it, and say it but most dont know why.
This is a good grown up thread. I am instinctively a socialist. I have the misfortune to be represented in Westminster by John Mann. He is in my opinion the worst kind of politician - populist and full of sound bites but scratch the surface and there is nothing there. He is typical of so many others. Style over substance. It was inevitable and necessary that Labour would turn to someone like Corbyn because it is trying to re-discover its soul. He represents the values that persuaded the membership to join in the first place. The country needs an honest alternative to the lie that is austerity and now it has one. The SNP swept the board in Scotland on the back of an anti-austerity policy so it can work although I understand that the landscape in Scotland is different. I honestly don't know if a Corbyn-led Labour Party can win a general election but I would rather have a serious left wing alternative to vote for instead of a choice between parties that have nothing between them. We can at least look forward to having a challenging opposition and some real debate which will be refreshing if nothing else.
All very convincing and rousing stuff for your typical Labour voter Towdlad but unfortunately to win an election Corbyn will have to appeal to people who would not normally vote for him and to do that he is going to have to drop some of his VERY unpopular left wing ideas - like giving away our nuclear deterrent.
I really respect your views S8, given your replies here, what would Corbyn have to do to convince you to vote for him, because it seems to me people like you are maybe the ones for him to convince?
MMM you are correct I haven't voted Labour for some time now, in fact I tactically voted for that imbecile Clegg at the last election purely to prevent the Labour candidate sneaking a victory in Sheffield Hallam.
Corbyn has some interesting ideas that I would endorse. l do rather like the idea of a National Investment Bank. I also support making multinational corporations pay their fair share of tax to be able to do business in Britain (they need us more than we need them). I also agree with his stance on university tuition fees and his arguments against austerity are interesting and seem to have some credibility.
But what makes people like me feel really uncomfortable is his rhetoric around nationalisation. While it may appeal to those who have never lived in a world of state run businesses, those of a certain vintage recoil with horror at the very thought of a return to the general malaise that infects organisations that don't need to make a profit to survive and where managers can't manage because unions are so powerful that they are able to hold the business to ransom to meet their ever increasing and unreasonable demands.
I also have a problem with his stance on unilateral nuclear disarmament and while I appreciate the points Towdlad makes it is an unnecessary risk in a very dangerous world.
Why fight battles you don't have to? Focus on the issues that matter to the majority of the people, ditch the left wing ideology that turns so many people off and he may well have a chance of getting the votes of folks like me to get elected.
-- Edited by S8Miller on Saturday 12th of September 2015 09:05:23 PM
Fully understand that S8, and believe it or not i have some sympathy with that view, as far as nationalisation is concerned, if not that, then a levy on the utilities as to what profits they take out, i'd ensure 3/4 went back into improvements, i'm not against profits, just the greed of the status quo.
I have never tuned in to any of the Labour Party leadership hustings over the past few weeks.
However, I watched the Labour Party leadership results programme on the BBC earlier today.
I must say that I was moved by Jeremy Corbyn's rousing victory speech.
It's a shame that some other Labour MPs will not support him and may even attempt to derail his and their own Labour Party's quest
to become more electable.
Cutting off the nose to spite their own face springs to mind.
That my friend is already happening, i'm afraid, there's some who have no real interest in the party as a whole, or what it should represent, these are the same people i'm on about, the careerist politicians.
I think there will be many who share your apprehension about nationalisation and the unions S8, and I would say not without good cause. But that was a different era, its well over 30 years ago since unions held any real political power, the number of unions and union membership is not what it once was. In addition there is a new generation of union member who are less militant than previous generations who I would hope would assert a calming influence on the few hot heads who are no doubt still around. Run and regulated well, I believe trade unions can and should be a benefit, and have a place in a modern society, workers do need to be protected.
I still believe there is also a place for nationalisation and for me without a doubt the water and power companies should be brought back into public ownership but the malaise you mentioned in previous decades was a result of poor governance from Westminster, with policies that changed with each government, which was wasteful and di nothin
The truth is we don't know how it will pan out. But what is for sure the scaremongers will be out in force frightening Joe Public, well its started already, pretty disgraceful really.
I have never tuned in to any of the Labour Party leadership hustings over the past few weeks.
However, I watched the Labour Party leadership results programme on the BBC earlier today.
I must say that I was moved by Jeremy Corbyn's rousing victory speech.
It's a shame that some other Labour MPs will not support him and may even attempt to derail his and their own Labour Party's quest
to become more electable.
Cutting off the nose to spite their own face springs to mind.
That my friend is already happening, i'm afraid, there's some who have no real interest in the party as a whole, or what it should represent, these are the same people i'm on about, the careerist politicians.
Makes me wonder what they were doing in the Labour Party in the first instance. I'd have thought if they were true Labour they would graciously accept the will of the party and join the debate to argue their case, or are they watered down Tories who wouldn't otherwise have got a look in with the Conservatives
I for one am happy, Blair was disaster and a Tory, arrogant toss pot. With Scotland lost Labour has little or no chance of winning anyway. At least now they will stand for something. Looking at MM on the same subject the level of debate is way ahead on here, more like Jeremy Kyle than reasoned debate.
