A great opportunity to make the most altruistic, caring and loving decisions of their entire life and they vote the Bill out!
Shame on you, I say as you have condemned thousands of people to a pitiful death.
I feel so strongly I would spit on you all...a disgrace!
If the decision was made out of ignorance re the understanding of dying then shame again because you should have put yourselves into a position of understanding.
I will never respect this group again...
Two doctors and a High Court judge had to agree to an individual's requests to be helped to die...What further safeguards would anyone require?
Stand up any individual who feels as an individual that they should not have this right and feel that they would not be able to decide for themselves.
Thats not the same as asking if you would want to die...it would be choice and what greater act of choice could we give a person..what greater act of kindness than to allow a person who is terminally ill to die with dignity at a time they choose when they know they have less than 6 months to live.
Some doctors dont want to be part of this..fine I understand that but for many of us it would be a privilege to help the dying.
Lets remove a myth and a lie...'Especially with the Hospice movement people already die pain free and with dignity'...Bullshyte and a lie!
I invite people to share their experience of relatives dying of a terminal illness.....The stories will be full of heartache and suffering..of your wonderful mum or dad dying like a dog in their front room in a loaned hospital bed, in confusion, in pain that is poorly controlled......and what do they die of?...not whats on the certificate...that is the background cause ie the terminal illness....We keep them heavily sedated[if they are the lucky few] and then we starve them to death and dehydrate them so they die a slow and undignified death with suffering relatives surrounding their bed....DISGUSTING
There are some good caring professionals of course of whom we cannot speak who make sure that the patients who are lucky to be in their hands who quietly and anonymously do the job with big doses of Diamorphine and Midazolam...but of course you will never hear from them....I only hope that if the time comes this group will care for me.
Of course I am ok as are the MPs, everyone of them..like me they can choose to go or not to go to Zurich....a civilised and caring place who understand the final months of life and act with loving compassion.
I am incensed and doubt that I will ever vote again.
You are clearly very passionate about this subject Kempo, my instinct sort of tells me that terminally ill with a very poor quality of life and only months to live should have the choice to end that suffering. It would seem, however that safeguards to protect the vulnerable are not there and that to me should override the rights of the former.
It was indeed a very clear no vote but did those MPs put themselves in a position to understand dying?
Did they take that decision putting other people first or themselves?
Unless they are religious nut jobs I just cannot believe that they have any understanding of what it is like to be dying of a terminal illness in the UK today
What about having a referendum?...and let the people decide?
It was indeed a very clear no vote but did those MPs put themselves in a position to understand dying?
Did they take that decision putting other people first or themselves?
Unless they are religious nut jobs I just cannot believe that they have any understanding of what it is like to be dying of a terminal illness in the UK today
What about having a referendum?...and let the people decide?
I couldn't agree more Kempo, people who are in tremendous pain, terminally ill, & deep suffering should be afforded the right to end their life. The referendum idea is a good idea.
Agree with you here Kempo, to put another slant on that no vote, there's a lot of religious claptrap among MP'S, where they feel it's against the teachings of religion, and their 'god' to allow this. Now, for me this isn't a religious issue,it's a human one, and i find it really hard to understand the mentality of those voting and supporting a no vote, if any of our pets aresuffering, we do the right thing by them, what makes us so different?
Very, very poor. Shove it back and let someone else decide rather than make a bold but enlightened decision. The Courts have been sending messages to Parliament for years to legislate and provide clarity on this subject, because they are stymied by the law as it stands. The Commons had the chance today and they fudged it. A shameful lack of leadership. Some have hidden behind the 'safeguards' argument when in truth they are afraid to upset the powerful conservative (with a small c) lobby. I watched my mother wither away recently and despite the best available care from dedicated professionals I wouldn't have let an animal suffer as she did. Why should she be denied a choice in those cir***stances just because (a minority of) others would choose differently? Almost barbaric.
-- Edited by smiler on Friday 11th of September 2015 07:22:39 PM
Very, very poor. Shove it back and let someone else decide rather than make a bold but enlightened decision. The Courts have been sending messages to Parliament for years to legislate and provide clarity on this subject, because they are stymied by the law as it stands. The Commons had the chance today and they fudged it. A shameful lack of leadership. Some have hidden behind the 'safeguards' argument when in truth they are afraid to upset the powerful conservative (with a small c) lobby. I watched my mother wither away recently and despite the best available care from dedicated professionals I wouldn't have let an animal suffer as she did. Why should she be denied a choice in those cir***stances just because (a minority of) others would choose differently? Almost barbaric.
Totally agree, written much more eloquently than i could ever do, you have it bang on.
Great post smiler and I am sorry to say that your experience is the norm.
You have described dying as it actually is and obviously those MPs did not have the knowledge to make the correct decision.
What right has the state to deny someone the right to make an informed decision about how they would like to die.
Remember these people are terminally ill and will die within 6 months whatever but they have been denied the choice to end their OWN life in a dignified way and at a time of their choosing.
A great point about hiding behind the safeguards argument.
Switzerland have been offering this for years and where are the stories of evil relatives and terrible mistakes?
We now have a situation where terminally ill people have to drag themselves to Zurich to have this choice..and of course only those with 8K spare can do it...It's a disgusting way to treat the dying.
Doctors should not be forced to play a part in ending someone's life , they should be able to opt out if they so wish.
Our society is prepared to slaughter innocent children in the womb by tearing them apart sometimes but to help someone to have a dignified death..it's a no!..disgraceful!
Sorry you experienced that with your mum smiler, that's exactly what I am describing..that's how the majority with terminal illnesses die.
I am so angry about this and ashamed of those members of my profession who encouraged the no vote.
Nobody is saying that this is how you must die..just give the dying a choice....Surely they deserve that at least.
When you have the BMA and RCN taking the positions they do how can you expect MP's to vote otherwise? Maybe you should all direct your ire to those organisations with supposed expertise that either do not support or sit on the fence on this issue.
It's a, good point S8 but those two organisations don't carry much respect from their grass roots membership and the views of their membership on this is unknown.
I have just googled the key reasons for the BMA's objection and frankly I would be embarrassed to present that reasoning in a discussion on this topic.
You are right S8 to point out that those professional bodies have taken anti assisted dying positions on behalf of their members. They have a particular agenda. I believe that they are wrong. Their views should be taken account of but need not be definitive and indeed when it suits them MP's are perfectly happy to ignore professional bodies. This same bunch of MP's has voted in favour of swingeing cuts to legal aid for example when the Law Society robustly opposed them on behalf of an almost unanimous profession (whereas even the BMA acknowledge that their membership is pretty much split). MP's are imposing weekend working arrangements on the same healthcare professionals despite BMA opposition. In conclusion, I am disappointed with the position taken on this issue by the professional bodies but that situation does not excuse the missed opportunity in the Commons today.
Steady Kempo. I'm with you 100% on the assisted dying debate because it is just right. Plain and simple. Don't go and weaken your position though by justifying it on the basis of popular opinion. We can't have referenda on every subject or public policy dictated by the masses. Democracy might break out. Where would that leave us? Heaven knows that might all end with the majority view of supporters as expressed on twitter or other social media dictating who a manager should be. And that would never do as I am sure you would agree (I think you may have already done so).
As an ex ICU nurse I do support assisted death. However, I am not totally comfortable and whatever law is put in place it must be stringent and transparent. I have seen many deaths some dignified and done well and other perhaps not so much. As a health worker I do have some unease.
Just read the Dignitas website and very interesting and what an impressive organisation...what a contrast to our MPs.
Two comments stand out...someone described assisted suicide as the 'least worse option'..important to remember that assisted suicide is not a wonderful experience that we just cannot wait to partake of.
Many people who have been given the green light carry on with standard palliative care and don't use the service but they feel assured and mentally happier knowing that the 'exit door' is always available if needed........really interesting that point.
The law in the UK need praise in that no relative or friend has ever been prosecuted for assisting a suicide trip to Zurich.....That actually means that those of us with enough money such as MPs have assisted suicide available..? On expenses!!!!!!!!!
Unfortunately it also means that many of those travelling to Zurich have to kill themselves earlier than they may want to because they need to take into account being fit to travel!
It should be said in this discussion that 'best in the world NHS' has recently come out near the bottom in terminal care provision study and it's 'world class' Gold Standard Liverpool Terminal Care Pathway has been binned as not fit for purpose!!
Sickly..I fully understand you having some reservations and understand the need for safeguards..that 'backward country' Switzerland manage it with the support of the vast majority of family doctors.....why not just copy it?
-- Edited by Kempo on Saturday 12th of September 2015 10:14:31 AM
-- Edited by Kempo on Saturday 12th of September 2015 10:18:42 AM
