I read your post challenging kempo's view that the Tabard was an East Dene pub with interest. I was born on Ridgeway and we used to peer down at the denizens across Valley Road much as the Romans must have watched the Picts from Hadrian's Wall. But when they built East Herringthorpe for the returning heroes of WW2 they didn't trust us with a single pub. In fact I can't think of one in East Dene either; the nearest I can remember was the Park Hotel at the end of Badsey Moor Lane. Have I missed one or more?
Wasn't there one at the other end of Badsley Moor Lane called the Dene/East Dene or similar which is now closed down?
Also, isn't the Dene Brook at the top end of East Herringthorpe, and also what about the Davy Lamp, which is no more, that was on East Herringthorpe surely?
I read your post challenging kempo's view that the Tabard was an East Dene pub with interest. I was born on Ridgeway and we used to peer down at the denizens across Valley Road much as the Romans must have watched the Picts from Hadrian's Wall. But when they built East Herringthorpe for the returning heroes of WW2 they didn't trust us with a single pub. In fact I can't think of one in East Dene either; the nearest I can remember was the Park Hotel at the end of Badsey Moor Lane. Have I missed one or more?
Sorry, only just noticed this thread, Ridgeway Kid.
The pubs regarded as being 'on' East Dene when I was growing up there in the 1950s & 60s included one on Doncaster Road - the Foljambe (although technically on the "Eastwood side" of Doncaster Road) - plus the Park Hotel, (on the corner of Badsley Moor Lane & Middle Lane opposite Herringthorpe Playing Fields), together with one on the corner of Far Lane and Badsley Moor Lane, the name of which I've forgotten for the moment.
Of course, drink was also available at the old East Dene Miners' Welfare on Far Lane, where I played footy on the pitch sloping down to the houses on Herringthorpe Valley Road. Sadly, it disappeared when 'The Lanes' complex of houses was built at the end of the 1960s.
And, opposite my old primary school - Doncaster Road Infants & Juniors [now East Dene Primary] - is the East Dene WMC, another watering hole.
You might argue that the Tabard was technically 'on' East Dene but most self-resting East Deners (i.e. me) regarded it as a posh pub frequented by the nouveau riche posh set on the Herringthorpe estate, across the Herringthorpe Valley Road.
As to why there was no pub built on the post-war East Herringthorpe estate, look no further than dear Alderman Caine, and others on the Housing Committee. Their minutes in the Rotherham County Borough archives make fascinating reading, as do the responses the Committee received from the various brewers invited to consider building a pub on the development.
Talk about casting slurs on the folk to be housed in that area, some allocated council housing following the planned demolitions of Masbro' and surrounding central Rotherham areas. If you doubt me, reflect on the people moved on to the Broom Valley estate, and the fact an estate pub was built there, a mere few years after the East Herringthorpe development.
Fascinating social history, and a lesson in the subtle gradations of people for whom the new estates were built.
(Anyone on the vast early 1950s onwards Kimberworth Park estate can reflect that, again unlike East herringthorpe, the brewers were eager to build pubs on that estate.)
Kempo, old fruit, have you been bashing the barley wine again? What apology?
Please read my post carefully and note that when i say " You might argue that 'technically' the Tabard was on East Dene..." I'm not apologising.
You're the one claiming to have served Keith Richard's former squeeze, Anita Pallenberg, in that pub. As I said, regarded by East Deners as a pub for poseurs from across the Herringthorpe Valley Road on the new estate there.
But, as it's only 10 days before Christmas, I'll call our discussion a score (not bore) draw, and wish you well with the big pre-Xmas push you Betaware salesman do at this time of year. Good luck round Canklow tomorrow.
I read your post challenging kempo's view that the Tabard was an East Dene pub with interest. I was born on Ridgeway and we used to peer down at the denizens across Valley Road much as the Romans must have watched the Picts from Hadrian's Wall. But when they built East Herringthorpe for the returning heroes of WW2 they didn't trust us with a single pub. In fact I can't think of one in East Dene either; the nearest I can remember was the Park Hotel at the end of Badsey Moor Lane. Have I missed one or more?
Sorry, only just noticed this thread, Ridgeway Kid.
The pubs regarded as being 'on' East Dene when I was growing up there in the 1950s & 60s included one on Doncaster Road - the Foljambe (although technically on the "Eastwood side" of Doncaster Road) - plus the Park Hotel, (on the corner of Badsley Moor Lane & Middle Lane opposite Herringthorpe Playing Fields), together with one on the corner of Far Lane and Badsley Moor Lane, the name of which I've forgotten for the moment.
Of course, drink was also available at the old East Dene Miners' Welfare on Far Lane, where I played footy on the pitch sloping down to the houses on Herringthorpe Valley Road. Sadly, it disappeared when 'The Lanes' complex of houses was built at the end of the 1960s.
And, opposite my old primary school - Doncaster Road Infants & Juniors [now East Dene Primary] - is the East Dene WMC, another watering hole.
You might argue that the Tabard was technically 'on' East Dene but most self-resting East Deners (i.e. me) regarded it as a posh pub frequented by the nouveau riche posh set on the Herringthorpe estate, across the Herringthorpe Valley Road.
As to why there was no pub built on the post-war East Herringthorpe estate, look no further than dear Alderman Caine, and others on the Housing Committee. Their minutes in the Rotherham County Borough archives make fascinating reading, as do the responses the Committee received from the various brewers invited to consider building a pub on the development.
Talk about casting slurs on the folk to be housed in that area, some allocated council housing following the planned demolitions of Masbro' and surrounding central Rotherham areas. If you doubt me, reflect on the people moved on to the Broom Valley estate, and the fact an estate pub was built there, a mere few years after the East Herringthorpe development.
Fascinating social history, and a lesson in the subtle gradations of people for whom the new estates were built.
(Anyone on the vast early 1950s onwards Kimberworth Park estate can reflect that, again unlike East herringthorpe, the brewers were eager to build pubs on that estate.)
Sugar, Im interested in your reference to Masbro' and the planned demolition of housing there. Is this the period in the mid-late seventies?
The clearances to which I'm referring were back in the late 1940s, following some that happened pre-World War II - the War interupted the planned slum clearances.
I remember the Masbro' & Thornhill clearances in the early to mid 1970s but those post-date the building of East Herringthorpe, Broom Valley and most of Kimberworth Park/Wingfield.
The painting of Alderman Caine catches how I remember him, with his thick mustache. He lived in (at that time) the only council bungalow, built on the East Dene estate at the back of my grandparents' house on First Avenue, accessed via First Avenue.
People like Caine believed strongly in improving the quality of life for people in Rotherham and - it seems to me - did their best given the attitudes of the time and the resources available to them. They believed in good-quality social housing, decent schools and the importance of libraries and the arts.
Of course, not all were as impressive or principled as Alderman Caine - some of us remember Alderman Leslie Tarbit, the first person ever to sue Private Eye ad in the Eye's Hall of Fame (and Shame)...
-- Edited by SugarTiler on Tuesday 16th of December 2014 07:35:34 AM
Come on sugar...stop all this I'm a working class lad from East Dene stuff and tell the truth.
Remember I know you!
Never mind council houses in East Dene...tell them about your membership to the Nouveau Riche, 5 bedroomed house, holiday home, Mercedes, BBC producer wife and all the money you gained out of the music business propelling you into the upper classes.
Tell them how you changed your name to Jacques to posh it up a bit and we won't mention the tailored suits....nearly forgot the private schooling.
Yes...East Dene is a distant memory from where you are now sugar old bean.
Crikey kempo, you're back early from your Betaware round today.
Now, let's be copper-bottom on facts, Kempo, old chum.
Five bedroom house? Not unless you think we should make two bedrooms out of our tanked cellars, nor do I drive at all nowadays, nor have I ever had a Merc.
As you should know, if you knew me at all, I went from the Morris Minor Convertible to the Bristol, and I stuck with them until I stopped driving, apart from a lovely Citroen DS Wagon* whilst in LA (*as the Safari was known in the States). Nowadays, Lady Sugar drives me in the old Bentley S2 Continental.
Speaking of which, my wife is a lippy Glaswegian who won't need the services of Eggie Rimes & Ernie Newton's "Grudges-Settled-While-U-Wait" Inc, of Tickhill Square, Denaby, to help in giving you a warm Glasga Greet. I'm sure your nose needs reshaping anyway.
As for private schooling - well, she wouldn't have married a public school boy and I had to explain carefully to her that Rotherham Grammar School was a state grammar, trying to ape a minor public school with "Houses", prefects and a constant harping on about being foundered in 1482.Thank god those of us in Bishops at RGS at least emerged, as MacShaw would have put it, quoting Horace, "teres atque rotundus", unlike some in lesser Houses.
Finally, if you know me so well, you'll recall a good 30 years of my working life was spent in an area quite removed from the music and broadcasting businesses, and much more satisfying in many way, despite not paying as well.
So, your 'facts' suggest you are mostly taking random shots in the dark but keep banging away Kempo. The time you devote to posting on here, and back on MillersMad, suggests you have need of some excitement in your life to fill your boredom after the Betaware round is over.
Just make sure Lady Sugar gets her refund after you diddled her over your two-fer-one yellow duster offer.
PS: Any ladies on the Canklow estate tempted by Kempo's 'special offers' from his Betaware case should remember the old East Dene saying, "caveat emptor".
Cold reading. Hmm. This sad attempt at outing posters who choose not to identify themselves is a poor show. Nothing better to do, eh?
Your (not-so-subtle) hints point the finger in the wrong direction, and my top chum from East Dene & RGS & Bishops may well appraise you of this error by means of a letter from Messrs Sue, Grabbit and Runne. Either way, you'd do well to avoid him at NYS as he may well wish me to put him in touch with Eggie & Ernie at some point.
Perhaps you might turn your gaze to pondering on the posters who double up jointly as Mandy, who are even better known to you. Cold read that one.
Ah, Kempo a GP then? Some of my best friends are GPs. And their contracts! You have my admiration if you stuck it out to 57, most GPs I know felt burnt out at 50. Ditto teachers.
I'm not touchy about any involvement in music but it doesn't define the person or the bulk of my life. Now it's just an interesting past time plus a way to try to wind Zilzal up. Unfortunately, our tastes (and prejudices) seem very similar.
As Villa points out, Zilzal was forced to admit his links with East Dene were short and tenuous, so although I can understand his desire to be seen as one of the Rotherham elite, growing up on East Dene, he can't really trade on being an East Dener. Again as Villa says, he ducked an East Dene quiz, which would have enabled him to show his ED credentials.
PS: We East Deners, especially those of us involved in deep-cover outreach work in Sheffield, don't chill out but just drink a lot.
