Imagine not being able to travel forever, but nevertheless your outer world is infinitely big (like it must appear to sheffield wednesday fans).
If the universe is not infinite then we either hit a point of no return, or we enter other possibilities in much the same way we do when we sleep perhaps.
All this being somehow true from our human experience what implication does this have for the nature of things. Given consciousness is clearly not only in human form but existed way yaaaaaaayyyyyyy before we evolved or were created as evidenced by the mere act of matter (we are matter from the beginning of all things) and it's apparent expansion into space...
So, does anyone have any insight into how all this came about and given its apparent self existing infinite nature where it is going?
Just thought I'd ask as there isn't a mid week game.
-- Edited by ian on Wednesday 3rd of December 2014 05:20:35 AM
I think Stephen Hawking answered your question in his Brief History Of Time unfortunately I was lost after page 2!
The answer of course is yes but the explanation is difficult for many of us.
On a related subject in a way...Only one thing makes me wonder if there may be a God( with a sense of humour maybe) and that is oddly Stephen Hawking himself......
No, because as far as science can tell, time and space began at the big bang. There was no "before" the big bang, neither was there a "somewhere else". The universe is not infinite, its limit is the extent to which space has expanded since the big bang, logically speaking. Mind you, I can see alternative arguments too, you could go mad thinking about it all.
Although it seems a logical question.ian and one asked by many its actually a nonsense.
As the Universe has no edge then there is nothing outside it...in fact anything that you would like to claim is outside the universe must be part of the universe and not outside...the universe expands into nothing..a concept that many of us have some difficulty in confidently getting to grips with.
This is kind of hard to get your head around. The way I see it is the famous balloon analogy. Take a balloon and mark some dots on it. Now inflate the balloon. You see how everything moves further apart? That's basically how space is expanding, except rather than a single surface like the balloon, it's happening to all points in 3D space. Remember - you are only considering the surface of the balloon, not the surroundings. Just my view, not necessarily fact at all.
-- Edited by Pod on Friday 5th of December 2014 06:47:13 PM
It's expanding into nothing, which is nothing so there's nothing to stop it, if nothing was something it would be infinite.
M-theory covers what could have caused the big bang. Two universes colliding, when this happens you get a big bang and the creation of another universe. M-theory in a nutshell, that there's an infinite number of universes which explains how earth could be so finely tuned without is being created by God. Not easy to prove of course, the more we learn the stranger things become.
Don't think we can rule out God Kempo, I find being very open minded is the best way of learning more. Of course we can safely rule out any religious Gods as they're easily disproven.
Although it seems a logical question.ian and one asked by many its actually a nonsense.
As the Universe has no edge then there is nothing outside it...in fact anything that you would like to claim is outside the universe must be part of the universe and not outside...the universe expands into nothing..a concept that many of us have some difficulty in confidently getting to grips with.
True enough in respect of concepts of something and nothing but not true from any other sense. When something expands as I think later pod suggest s with the slightly inelegant balloon theory it becomes 3 dimensional. Only problem is we don't know that space is 3 dimensional, or curved in on itself, or as andy suggests re string theory, multi verses etc.
Another suggestion is that the human mind is not at all capable of knowing or experiencing these truths due to the vast distances involved. Earth is only now clearly known via satellite and this is only possible due to perspective shifts that alter points of view. Sure some ideas around the true nature of the earth were known before point of view could be established yet they remained points of view until verified and clarified by direct observation. Direct observation of the cosmos seems implausible. Why should that be so?
On this earth planet we have risen to be Lords and masters and now we 'threaten' the immediate family above us.
Here on earth in our introspection we seek artistic, creative, spiritual experience and charter our journey to ever new horizons and hopefully the whole species is pulled up to look beyond and deeply in to itself.
Are we creatures of the earth only?
Are we creatures of the cosmos somehow?
Are we spirits (outside of time and space) but locked in matter and seeking a way out - a journey of knowledge and travel. But to where and what purpose.
If they universe is not infinite then what is it but a cage of limited contraction. Truly, if this turns out to be the truth we are eventually going nowhere?
-- Edited by ian on Saturday 6th of December 2014 02:03:55 AM
It's expanding into nothing, which is nothing so there's nothing to stop it, if nothing was something it would be infinite.
M-theory covers what could have caused the big bang. Two universes colliding, when this happens you get a big bang and the creation of another universe. M-theory in a nutshell, that there's an infinite number of universes which explains how earth could be so finely tuned without is being created by God. Not easy to prove of course, the more we learn the stranger things become.
Don't think we can rule out God Kempo, I find being very open minded is the best way of learning more. Of course we can safely rule out any religious Gods as they're easily disproven.
Yes, I'd go along with that to a point. I don't think the multiverse idea is too helpful because it just adds another concept of matter into time and space, which seems similar to the monkey on a type writer idea it suggests zero design intelligence but clearly it says nothing of the evolution or creative forces that got the monkey and the type writer to coexist and cooperate in the first place.
Good point re the religious attempts at understanding the nature of things. They clearly are limited as they do not suggest any theory that binds humanity and creation together in any coherent way and they rely on appeal to a made in the image of mankind diety which is clearly a limited self reflection view considering the vastness and complexity of our situation.
Good point andy and you're right to be wary. However, the fans will be facing away from the **** so splatter should be kept to a minimum. Unfortunately as amanda pointed out in another reality you are bound to be covered in ****.
